Contemplating 1st purchase for our student son (Intermediate+ level player)

[TheJH]

When I leave my horns in their case but with the lid opened on my room, in line with my window, it does tarnish with a yellow-brownish colour over time. As in, a couple of weeks to a couple of months. Probably the effect that sunlight has by warming up the metal and reacting slowly with the water in the air. This does not happen when I put a towel over the instrument.

[EyeInSky]

Let me question one of the comments in the initial fine overview of the various horns. I have played a silver plated Mack Brass for about 5 years and I have seen no evidence of worn sliver plating. Granted, I usually only play my euphonium about 3 times a week, except for the summer community band season. Most of the year, I play one of trombones more frequently.

However, I believe that I have played it enough that if plating was a serious issue, it would have shown up.
I have never worn gloves, nor have I put any leather wrap on the hand brace, something I probably should do.
Just my personal experience, I know, but I thought I should share it.

Hello John,

Thanks for the compliments on the initial overview. Let me just state it was compiled from about 30 or so hours of online research across many different brands.
What led to my concern about the silver plating rubbing off was from this YouTube review of the exact same horn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npX7IU3bDvs

... The comment occurs @ the 4:50 mark. I do like the sound on this horn quite a bit. He plays a nice tune at the end.

I'm still mulling over the MackBrass. The SUPER friendly $995 all-in price is quite tempting, and it looks like a decent instrument. Much better than the King & Jupiter non-compensating Euphoniums the schools have (schools should seriously consider these).
I also assume this model uses the small shank mouthpiece (just like most Yamahas)? If that's the case I would imagine the Wick 4AL everyone talks about would be out of the question.

[davewerden]

I'm almost certain that Mack would use a large shank mouthpiece.

[EyeInSky]

Hi Sheldon. Welcome to the forum.

I can comment on the YEP641 as I played one for 12 years or more. Mine is currently on long-term loan to my grandson. The 641 is very well made with a 'one-piece' bell construction - which is different than many other models. It has a very focused tone due to its 11" bell. Yamaha horns are well made and durable. The sixth partials (high Eb, E and F concert) can be pretty sharp but most euphoniums have the same or similar sharpness. You can usually deal with this using alternate fingerings or by lipping the notes down some. The $4000 price tag does seem a bit high to me. A section mate of mine recently bought a nearly perfect used Yamaha 642 for $3500. If you're interested in the 641 maybe make the seller an offer.

Good luck in finding an excellent horn for your son.

Hey there Rick!

I appreciate the input about the fair price for a YEP641. I would definitely feel much more comfortable with $3500 over $4 grand.
I inquired about the instrument to see if we could drive down next week, but have since discovered it was sold.
I guess fate is helping make this decision, but your experience of a near mint price really helped solidify that $4k as not only out of my price range but was also asking a bit too much.

My son also mentioned that small bore mouthpieces are easier to play. Do you also find this to be true, or is it mostly a situation with novice players?

[RickF]

I've not played on a small shank mpc since H.S. back in early to mid 60s. Then I didn't play for 33 years due to work and family. When I got back into playing I got the Yamaha 641 pretty quickly - which is large shank.

[EyeInSky]

Welcome to the forum, Sheldon!

JP Sterling and JP are separate lines as far as I know. The "Sterling" designation indicates that Paul Riggett of Sterling Musical Instruments in England has had a hand in design and also production methods. The JP Sterling has had some good reports here and elsewhere, but they are higher priced than Wessex. Perhaps some of the members here have insights into the "plain JP" line.

I saw the Matonis video comparison, and I find it quite flawed. Watch his finger action closely as he compares the valves. There is a big difference in the speed/force used, which by itself can account for extra noise on any horn. Not saying it was intentional, but it leaves the video useless in that regard.

I consider a Yamaha 641 a pro-level horn that is made well, plays well, and has been proven in the field. You might find it not quite as smooth and even from note to note as, for example, a Wessex, but I'm not sure about that.

Hello,

Thanks for the Paul Riggett name! How funny I said "some U.K. brass guru" and all I had to do was re-read the first response you gave (my apologies - lol).
Also thanks for the comment about Matonizz's valve noise comparison. For a quick reminder, below is the video (FF @ the 14:50 mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-OSpMLgN5o

On my second (and more critical) viewing, i can see that he's pressing on the valves much harder - almost slapping them. I don't know if he's doing this unconsciously, or to amplify his own opinion of valve noise.
The spirit of this is video strives to be an honest critique, but he should not be adding his own "color" to influence people's perceptions IMO.

Have you either played or had personal experience with another musician who has owned the JP274 line of Euphoniums?

[DaveBj]

I'm almost certain that Mack would use a large shank mouthpiece.

Its model number 1150 is also the Jinhao model number, and, yes, large-shank.

[EyeInSky]

Hi Rick,

Well - good to know the YEP641 is large shank (I incorrectly assumed it was small).
Since the MackBrass is a clone of the 641/642 models, no doubt Dave Warden is spot on about MackBrass being a large shank.

[EyeInSky]

My last three euphoniums (and all associated accessories) have come from Jenny, and she merits my highest recommendation. Excellent service, well priced, and brilliantly sourced. The hooters are refurbished by Paul Riggett and come superbly prepared.

Her store is out in the U.K. though, isn't that right? Wouldn't that make the cost and shipping more expensive?
Another user also raves about this company and Jenny's service - so it's worth looking into.

[Simes]

Hello John,

Thanks for the compliments on the initial overview. Let me just state it was compiled from about 30 or so hours of online research across many different brands.
What led to my concern about the silver plating rubbing off was from this YouTube review of the exact same horn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npX7IU3bDvs

... The comment occurs @ the 4:50 mark. I do like the sound on this horn quite a bit. He plays a nice tune at the end.

I'm still mulling over the MackBrass. The SUPER friendly $995 all-in price is quite tempting, and it seems to be a very decent instrument. Much better than the King & Jupiter non-compensating Euphoniums the schools have IMO (schools should seriously consider a large purchase of these).
I also assume this model uses the small shank mouthpiece (just like the Yamaha equivalent)? If that's the case I would imagine the Wick 4AL that everyone talks about would be out of the question.

As soon as I saw the first slide in the wrong way round, I lost interest. Also, if that’s the sort of euphonium sound that’s gaining currency, god help us all.

[EyeInSky]

Just got back from a music store in Redlands that had the Eastman EEP426 non-compensating Euphonium in stock.

The horn had a very balanced and neutral type of sound. Nothing exciting, but nothing offensive either. In comparison to the Wessex, my son felt the instrument had some wind resistance (especially along the 1st & 4th valves), which required a bit of "strain" for him to play at those registers. As for intonation along the lower registers, the non-compensating Eastman expectedly did not perform as well as the Wessex. However, he thought the Eastman had better mids & highs which surprised me. I'm a bit skeptical on that as I think more time is needed on both instruments to truly determine this. Reflecting back, he said there were a few keys that were "pitchy" on the Wessex, but the biggest culprit on the Eastman was a mid-range 'D' (if using the 1st & 2nd valve) which he thought was considerably out of tune.

The valves were a bit noisy. Similar to how the Wessex was but not as severe. I now realize this is merely an issue of maintenance and not an aspect to unfairly judge the instrument itself. The silver finish looked fine. Not quite as glossy as the Jupiter, but almost. I'd give the instrument a 9/10 on appearance, an 8/10 on mid-upper intonation, and maybe a 6/10 on lower intonation. My son indicated the Eastman was more difficult to play compared to the ease of the Wessex. Furthermore, the Wessex seemed to handle a variety of ranges more smoothly all around. In comparing tone quality, I still prefer the Wessex over the neutral Eastman and brassy Jupiter but my son seemed to like the sound very much. Granted... if a professional was to play this Eastman with vibrato and feeling I'm sure my opinion of the Eastman could be very different.

As of now, the Eastman is out of the running. The 426 is out because it isn't compensating, and the 526 is out because of its $3,800 price tag. We were given an offer to purchase the like-new "C-Class" (an instrument used for touring trade shows) display model for $200 off the MSRP. But since it's the non-compensating model, the offer didn't really entice me much. I was not in love with its tone, and the instrument didn't seem to get off the ground like the Wessex model did at times. Even with the Wessex's perceived "pitchy" nature across a few notes, it was the best instrument we tested so far. At least to my ears. The store said they were going to look into obtaining a JP274. If they are able to do that, it would be wonderful. In the meantime, I'm hoping we can drive down to The Horn Guys next week for a demo on their JP374.

[davewerden]

It did not seem like the right situation to mention this before, but maybe I should have. Here is an article I wrote about choosing a euphonium, which has tips on how to audition horns and compare them. Not all will apply as you go from music store to music store, but maybe something will be helpful:

http://www.dwerden.com/eu-articles-choosing.cfm

[ChristianeSparkle]

Her store is out in the U.K. though, isn't that right? Wouldn't that make the cost and shipping more expensive?
Another user also raves about this company and Jenny's service - so it's worth looking into.

Yes, unfortunately she's in the UK, so you won't be able to test it out. Shipping wise, she quoted me an acceptable shipping rate to South East Asia, so maybe it isn't too bad to the US? I am not sure how the whole tax thing will work though for used items going into the US.

But yes, I've heard nothing but praises for her service and the rare gems she carry.


And regarding the non-compensating Eastman, it's probably not worth considering at all. The principal euph in my community band uses a non-comp Besson for years without issue. But he's probably an exception to the rule. He bought his back when the stencil horn industry was still young and unreliable. That said, isn't Eastman made in China too, or am I mixing it up with another brand? I am surprised by the cost of the horn.

[EyeInSky]

Hi Christian,

Yes - it is also made in China as well. Probably another JINBAO brand I'm guessing. It's one of the more expensive (if not most expensive) Chinese Euphoniums. I just didn't see the value for its price. Maybe the Eastman has better longevity? I'm not sure, but the overall performance was pretty standard, and there wasn't anything special about the tone quality IMO. I may do a search for Eastman on here to see if others had the same impression. This brand doesn't get a lot of discussion on here, despite that I’ve generally heard good things about them.

Dave - Thanks for the link. I'm checking it out right now!

[EyeInSky]

Speaking of outdated opinions, if your son will be taking lessons with a particular professor it might be a good idea to check Professor’s preference before purchasing.

When I entered college (middle Stone Age), the clarinet majors who came with brand new top line Selmers were told that they would need top line Buffets or wouldn’t be allowed to take private lessons.
Things may have changed, but it never hurts to check.

I sure hope that's not the case with CBU, but I do know many band directors can be quite egotistical. :-\