Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 84

Thread: Contemplating 1st purchase for our student son (Intermediate+ level player)

  1. Rick - I looked at the H&W Brass Savers. I found the link to various brass instruments and saw they made one for Baritone, which I'm guessing should be adequate for Euphonium as well.

    These tools are not long/wide enough to cover the entire instrument, just the detachable slides. To clean the instrument itself, do you use the submersion technique I mentioned above (post #46)?
    If so, how often is it necessary to to do this?

    You mentioned your grandson is using your YEP641 and is having a good time with it. The Miraphone 5050 looks like quite the upgrade!
    Last edited by EyeInSky; 05-25-2019 at 06:11 PM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,853
    Yes, the baritone set is what you would want for euph. I also bought the trombone set as it comes in handy sometimes. I give my horn a bath about every six months. As a rough guide that's when I notice my 4th valve starting to stick telling my 'it's time for a bath'. Then every other year I take my horn into the shop to have it professionally cleaned in their ultrasonic tub. Just today I got my M5050 back from this thorough cleaning with new felts (actually rubber washers) for correct port alignment of valve to valve casing.

    My grandson did like using my 641 in H.S. He kept the 641 at home to practice instead of lugging it back and forth on the bus. He did use it for concert play. I gave him a Doug Elliott mpc with two shanks so he could use it on the 641 (large shank) and the school's Yamaha 321 horn (small shank). He's now in college for computer science so no time to play.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  3. Sorry to hear your grandson doesn’t have time to practice/play much these days. I have a feeling once he finishes college and he settles with his life, his love for music will continue and he’ll come back to the Euphonium. The Yamaha instrument you gave him is a really nice one.

    Thanks for the bath and professional maintenance schedules. All good stuff to know.
    Last edited by EyeInSky; 05-26-2019 at 10:10 AM.

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeInSky View Post
    Rick - I looked at the H&W Brass Savers. I found the link to various brass instruments and saw they made one for Baritone, which I'm guessing should be adequate for Euphonium as well.

    These tools are not long/wide enough to cover the entire instrument, just the detachable slides. To clean the instrument itself, do you use the submersion technique I mentioned above (post #46)?
    If so, how often is it necessary to to do this?

    You mentioned your grandson is using your YEP641 and is having a good time with it. The Miraphone 5050 looks like quite the upgrade!
    I would be careful about the one that you pull through. My came apart inside the horn after about 6 uses. The two ended one has held together.

    Mike

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeInSky View Post
    Rick - I looked at the H&W Brass Savers. I found the link to various brass instruments and saw they made one for Baritone, which I'm guessing should be adequate for Euphonium as well.

    These tools are not long/wide enough to cover the entire instrument, just the detachable slides. To clean the instrument itself, do you use the submersion technique I mentioned above (post #46)?
    If so, how often is it necessary to to do this?

    You mentioned your grandson is using your YEP641 and is having a good time with it. The Miraphone 5050 looks like quite the upgrade!
    I used these for a bit till I found that they were shedding fuzz inside the valve knuckles.

    Don Winston

  6. Today we are just coming back from a VERY successful trip from The Horn Guys! What an incredible hole-in-the-wall store that is!!! They must have at least $1/2 million dollars of inventory. Our son was able to test out the JP374. This was not the JP374-"T" model (so it doesn't have a trigger). Once I return home I will tell you guys all about it... as I don't like typing on a small phone. I’m also hoping we can test out the 274 within the next hour, so I can report on both. The short of it is the reaction after playing the 374 was EXTREMELY positive (but is $1k higher than we’d like to spend).
    Last edited by EyeInSky; 06-01-2019 at 07:53 PM.

  7. Okay folks,

    Drum roll...

    The Higgens' approved JP374:

    First off, the instrument was brand-spanking new and from head to toe the finish was pristine and sparkling! I examined the finish very closely, and I could not find a single blemish on this instrument. The "JP" etching looked nice, as did the curves of the tubes around the valves. What a spectacular-looking instrument for the $2,800 price tag it has. I would give the finish quality a 10/10 (A+) score - the same as the Jupiter model we saw at Sam Ash. No doubt this is the way ALL new shiny instruments should look, and it's comforting to know it can stay looking that way if it's properly maintained.
    ... APPEARANCE Winner = JP & Jupiter TIE > Eastman > Wessex (based on what we saw at the stores, as I feel it's fair to not overlook blemishes & scratches while trying my best to ignore tarnish that's potentially fixable).

    Next, we listened for valve noise. Right out of the box, this Euphonium was the quietest of all the ones we tried (but still wasn't 100% perfect). I suppose I would score the valve noise at 8/10 (B+) out of the box. The employee spent at least 15 minutes applying a good amount of oil while working the valves - making them even quieter and more "invisible" when activated or pressed. After this treatment, I would increase the score to 9/10 (A-). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but is it safe to assume the (already good) valve noise aspect on this instrument may potentially improve even MORE over time as the instrument gets used on a consistent basis?
    ... VALVE NOISE Winner = JP > Jupiter > Eastman > Wessex

    Now it was time to hear our son PLAY the darn thing! The tone quality that came out of this was amazing. I couldn't believe how wonderful this instrument sounded. It was able to produce a confident and robust sound, yet also had considerable WARMTH and RICHNESS. It wasn't quite as "darkly sweet" as the Wessex Dolce (I do admit that I briefly missed the hypnotic tone of the Wessex). But in the end it was JP's overriding "stage presence" that won me over - especially since the music never reached the point of sounding "harsh" or "brassy". I wasn't sure if we would like the sound of another Chinese instrument more than the Wessex... until we heard this puppy today. The predominant tonality of this instrument helps me believe our son can achieve a greater variety of playing styles over the other competing instruments. Both the Wessex Dolce and the JP374 sound lovely! The Wessex's tone is pleasantly tempered, controlled, and consistent. Whereas the JP might require a small learning curve to "tame" it. There wasn't anything during our demo today that made me feel it wasn't possible. I haven't heard the $8-$10 Willson/Adams/Bessons/Miraphones, but after comparing the tone of several instruments John Packard would be the winner at our price point. Score 10/10 (A+)
    ... TONE QUALITY Winner = JP > Wessex (but a close match) > Eastman > Jupiter

    And finally, it was time to critique the tuning and intonation of the instrument. Knowing this Euphonium lacked a trigger, I was well prepared for the same set of notes to be out of tune (using the ideal embouchure). To my surprise, this was NOT the case! Our son became quickly impressed because nearly ALL of the notes played perfectly in tune. Mid-range registers were perfect. Low (compensated) registers were perfect. Upper registers were almost perfect. He indicated Eb was the only note that was (slightly) flat - and he was able to correct for that by "lipping" the note. Now if the instrument had a trigger, I imagine he can (alternately) adjust that way to maintain a consistent embouchure. We did not bring an electronic tuning device with us to confirm this with 100% certainty. Our son does have a nifty iPhone tuning APP that may have done a reasonable job if we were smart enough to remember he had it (lol). Even so, we consider the intonation on this Euphonium to be shockingly accurate - especially for its price. I would rate the JP374 at a 9.5/10 (A+). The reason why I grade as an A+ is because I think this level of accuracy would require a trigger (that costs more money) or a step up to a much higher end model (which costs a LOT more money). I may be going out on a limb here, but I may confidently say no other Euphonium under the $2800 mark can achieve the same power, tone, and WIDE-RANGE intonation this instrument has. This could also be a by-product of our son's familiarity with the embouchure of his (lower end) mouthpiece, but I feel this is a fair comparison.
    ... TUNING & INTONATION Winner: JP (by a long shot) > Eastman > Wessex > Jupiter (cough).

    We spent about 45 minutes in the store, and it was a joy to listen to him play on this. I do like how the sound is a bit "different" compared to the Wessex. It's not a Wessex clone, nor is it a Jupiter or Eastman clone. I'm guessing this sounds close to a Yamaha, as I imagine the Wessex probably sounds close to a Besson. Unfortunately we couldn't try the JP274 at the other music store, but it should arrive early next week. I wish we had a local friend who has a better maintained Wessex... blemish free with no scratchy valve noise that we could re-test just to confirm our feelings. The Wessex is certainly a fine instrument, and it will be very interesting to see how the less expensive JP274 model compares against both the JP374 and the Wessex Dolce. At this point, I think MackBrass is out - mainly because this purchase will likely be in our son's permanent collection. If the JP274 is as equally "pitchy" as the Wessex was (in areas), I may regret experiencing the JP374 for fear of buyer's remorse if we don't spend $1k over our budget (sigh - lol).
    Last edited by EyeInSky; 06-01-2019 at 10:27 PM.

  8. #58
    Nice write up of your experience with the horn. Yes, the valves will work quieter and better after a period of breaking in and working it out.

    I believe you will have a similar experience with the jp274 as you had on the 374. But guess we will know when you get to test it out.

    It has definitely been fun reading about your experience testing and looking around for an instrument to purchase!
    Last edited by ChristianeSparkle; 06-01-2019 at 10:02 PM.
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeInSky View Post
    ...And finally, it was time to critique the tuning and intonation of the instrument. Knowing this Euphonium lacked a trigger, I was well prepared for the same set of notes to be out of tune (using the ideal embouchure). To my surprise, this was NOT the case! Our son became quickly impressed because nearly ALL of the notes played perfectly in tune. Mid-range registers were perfect. Low (compensated) registers were perfect. Upper registers were almost perfect. He indicated Eb was the only note that was (slightly) flat - and he was able to correct for that by "lipping" the note. Now if the instrument had a trigger, I imagine he can (alternately) adjust that way to maintain a consistent embouchure. We did not bring an electronic tuning device with us to confirm this with 100% certainty. Our son does have a nifty iPhone tuning APP that may have done a reasonable job if we were smart enough to remember he had it (lol). Even so, we consider the intonation on this Euphonium to be shockingly accurate - especially for its price. I would rate the JP374 at a 9.5/10 (A+). The reason why I grade as an A+ is because I think this level of accuracy would require a trigger (that costs more money) or a step up to a much higher end model (which costs a LOT more money). I may be going out on a limb here, but I may confidently say no other Euphonium under the $2800 mark can achieve the same power, tone, and WIDE-RANGE intonation this instrument has. This could also be a by-product of our son's familiarity with the embouchure of his (lower end) mouthpiece, but I feel this is a fair comparison.
    ... TUNING & INTONATION Winner: JP (by a long shot) > Eastman > Wessex > Jupiter (cough)....
    A couple things come to mind after reading your review. You really should try a Wessex that hasn't been sitting around unattended and uncared for. My valves are not scratchy, and my horn is finished nicely, not perfectly, but nicely.

    I have a problem with your intonation results. I am a professional musician. I think I have a pretty good ear. However, I could NEVER EVER test the intonation of a horn without a tuner (usually two tuners in fact to make sure). If you did all of your tuning just by ear and listening, then unless you have perfect pitch, you intonation test is not worth much, sorry to say. You need a tuner to help in adjusting the slides on the horn BEFORE you start any intonation test. You should check out Dave Werden's Intonation Chart: http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/ You may be surprised about the intonation comparison between the JP374 and Wessex Dolce.

    To me, the number one thing to look for in a horn is the sound. That would be about 75-85% of my opinion of a horn. Without a good sound, nothing else makes any difference. So, your discussion on the tone and sound would be the single most important thing for me. And a good sound is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder. So, no one can say what you like is wrong, good, bad, etc. But I would have a couple of really experienced players along to help in determining "best" sound. And be in a room conducive to listening for this.

    This business about valve noise is something that rates about 19 out of 20 in importance to me. Why? Because most any horn will be relatively quiet with proper maintenance, upkeep and good felts, pads and springs.

    I have no stake in your decision. I have a Wessex and really like it. I also have a couple other horns, and my Adams is my main horn and always will be. I have not played a JP horn and they very well may be fine horns.

    Just a few comments for you to consider or not. It is nice to see how totally engaged you are in the search for a horn for your son. Good luck in finding a good one!
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  10. #60
    I've read that people seem to think that Wessex is closer to the Yamaha while the JP to Besson. It can be see based on their valve caps too, I think? I'm unsure.
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

Page 6 of 9 FirstFirst ... 45678 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •