Replacement valve felts for Wessex Dolce?

[Beef]

I've come to realize the valves on my Wessex are very loud, especially the 4th valve. I've replaced the springs with mead springs a month or two ago and that helped quite a bit. But afterwards I've realized the felts are the culprit. Now I'm pretty new to taking care of my own instrument (Just got my Euph last summer, currently HS Junior) So I'd really appreciate if anyone could help steer me along onto more reliable felts and if not the size of the felt I need? Again, pretty new to this but this site has always been reliable when it came to anything Euph related.

[davewerden]

Welcome to the forum!

Wessex is one of the forum's sponsors and they have a section of their own here. If you click the Sponsors link in the top menu and then click into Wessex, you will see a new set of contacts. One of those is specifically for parts. I'd start there and get a new set of felts. Replacing felts is not expensive and needs to be done now and then.

I don't know what Wessex uses, but when you use the word "felts" I assume you mean the thick cloth kind, and not rubber, right? If they are felt, replacement is needed periodically. Once the new felts are in place, you can try this maintenance tip. Soak all the old felts in warm water. If they look very dirty you might also need to clean them in soapy water first, then rinse them a few times in clean water. In any case, the semi-final step in the process is the soaking in warm water until the felts get back their normal thickness. Then remove them from the water and put them on a few layers of paper towel. Do NOT squeeze out the water. Let them air dry thoroughly. I have done this in the past, and found that the process can restore felts. If it works for you, then you have a spare set now!

ALL THIS ASSUMES that the noise you hear is a thumping or slapping noise, which would usually be cause by the felt or rubber pads. If most of the noise is on the downstroke, the cause is the pad under the finger button. If most noise is on the valve's return to the top, then the cause is the pad on top of the piston.

If the noise you hear is scraping, then the springs are not seated correctly, or there is some other kind of problem.

[lzajmom]

My Dolce 4th valve kinda clacks a lot. Is this related to the felt? Clearly, there is metal hitting metal somewhere, but it's only a few months old.

[John Morgan]

Probably because your fingers are so fast on your valves you have literally worn right through the felt in only months!! Well done!! Actually, could it possibly be that the spring is not seated correctly? To do that for the 4th valve, it is best to orient the horn such that the 4th valve is straight up and down, then put the spring in, then put the valve in directly on top. Otherwise, it is possible to have the spring not directly in the center and rubbing on the sides. Of course, if you are hearing clacking (that is loud clacking) at the end of the downstroke or at the end of the upstroke on the valve, then indeed you probably have a worn felt, missing felt, or missing rubber type washer. Pull your 4th valve and check it against any of the three others. Well, wait a minute. I just did that on my Wessex Dolce. I have a fat felt and skinny felt washer on each of the 1-3 valve stems, and only a fat felt washer on the 4th valve stem. Are all the felts substantial looking, not all raggedy? Of course there should be felt in each of the 4 valve top caps. And a loose valve cap, top or bottom, can cause clacking. And tapping the toe of your tap dance shoes while playing can cause clacking...

[lzajmom]

And tapping the toe of your tap dance shoes while playing can cause clacking...

Ah, next time I'll keep the tap shoes in the closet!

I just took it apart to see if it was related to the felt. Then I spent 2-3 literal minutes screwing the cap back on. Now I can report back to you that the clack happens when the top turns left and right, rather than when the valve moves up or down. I believe it's normal for there to be just a little left-right give, but it shouldn't clack when it hits the left-right stop, should it? (Does that make sense?

[davewerden]

That doesn't sound right. On the one hand, the valve moving around like that will cause noise with metal valve guides, and it sound metallic. But with nylon guides it should be no more than a thumping sound. Could you attach a photo of the top of the 4th piston?

[lzajmom]

Now that I look at it again, I think it's just the white notch clacking as it turns within the groove. (Which part are you calling the valve guide?) I definitely wouldn't describe it as a thump, but it isn't as loud as a metallic clack either. It's loud enough to hear when I play.

Beef, so sorry for hijacking your thread!

[davewerden]

The photo looks about right. By any chance is there a set-screw hiding under the felt to secure the white piece in place? Oh, and what I call the guide is the rectangle of white that rides in the slot.

You should also check all the finger buttons, and top / bottom caps to make sure they are snug. Check for anything else loose, like a lyre screw.

[lzajmom]

By any chance is there a set-screw hiding under the felt to secure the white piece in place?

Since I'm still not sure I understand your question even after looking yet again, I'll attach additional pictures to supplant a few thousand words. Sorry they're so glare-y.



Valves 1-3 thump a little, as you described above. Valve 4 is definitely different. Maybe the clack is metallic, but lightly, if that makes sense. It isn't like when my kids get into the drawer with the stainless cookware.

[davewerden]

You can forget my set-screw question - there doesn't appear to be one. But I would tighten everything else that moves and see if it makes a difference.

[ghmerrill]

The description of this sounds like worn or loose valve guides to me. There shouldn't be any significant amount of left/right (or radial, is probably a better term) play of the valve guide in its channel. One way to test this is to just take the valve guide out and work the valve without it there. If the noise you're hearing goes away, then the problem is with the valve guide (or the channel).

You can do similar sorts of tests by borrowing a felt from one valve and using it to double up on another. if the noise goes away with the doubled felt, that suggests maybe you're using the wrong thickness of felt.

But remember: Just getting the noise to go away isn't your complete goal. That result is only good if it's done in the context of the valve alignment being correct.

Diagnosis by internet can be difficult.

[Jonathantuba]

As this problem is the 4th valve specifically, I would guess (difficult to diagnose remote) that the problem is the valve stem is slightly bent and the actual metal button is hitting the valve cap. Check to see if dead center and if not gentle push to bend the stem straight. The felt looks fine, while worn guides do not usually cause clanking.

If all else fails send video to dacapo@Wessex-tubas.com for advice from Chuck Nickles, Wessex designer and technical expert.

[lzajmom]

I keep forgetting to update you guys about this. A few weeks ago, I finally got the nerve to ask Tuba Player Instrument Repair Guy about it, and he fixed it in under 5 minutes.
+2 to Mr. Hodgetts for guessing bent valve stem!

[highpitch]

That white plastic part is the guide. It has a little bump that fits into a hole on top of the valve, and is held in place by the stem.

I've seen where the stem gets loose when playing, and lets the guide rotate out of it's proper index.

Be careful, it can be broken if out of alignment.

Dennis