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Thread: Alexander 151 Tenor Tuba

  1. #1

    Alexander 151 Tenor Tuba

    Has anyone tried the Alexander 151 5-Valve tenor tuba? Being primarily a trombonist who occasionally doubles on euphonium, what dissuades me from playing on a traditional euphonium is the dark, woody sound. I have been told that the Alexander 151 has a very clear and colorful and vibrant sound, and that I would probably like it. I am looking for suggestions. I want to buy something that will suit me. I have been warned that the Alex 151 is a little bit stuffy in the lower register. Not sure unless I try one. They are very rare.

    Thanks.
    Steven Norsworthy
    steven@rf2bits.com

  2. #2
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    Welcome to the forum Steven. Sorry I don't have any info on the Alex 151 5-valve tenor tuba. Maybe some others will. You might consider the Miraphone 5050 which some refer to as tenor tuba because of its' .610 bore with 4 valves (compensating).

    Again, welcome.
    Last edited by RickF; 04-05-2019 at 04:12 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
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  3. #3
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    Isn't the primary question "What purpose do you have in mind for this instrument?" Is it only for your amusement? For use in certain groups or types of groups? For use on "tenor tuba" parts in orchestral arrangements?" Etc.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. #4
    The Alex 151 has a particular sound and characteristics that are dissimilar to the standard Euphonium as we know it. Either one likes it or doesn't like it, a totally subjective matter. I was probing for people who have spent time on it as well as on a standard Euphonium and would provide me some detailed feedback.

    If orchestral only, there is no one style of tenor tuba or euphonium that would be compliant with all compositions entailing such an instrument. There are 2 schools of tradition I have in mind: British and German. British concept of euphonium would be closer to matching the original intent for the Holst Planets. I doubt Holst would have had a rotor valve German style instrument like the Alex 151 in mind. As for the German literature, I was thinking of the Mahler 7th Symphony and the Strauss Don Quixote. I am not sure Mahler had something like the Alex 151 in mind but his call for 'tenor horn' would have been something that was not the woody dark sound that a modern euphonium has, but something clearer and brighter.

  5. #5
    There really is no historical basis for such a thing as a "tenor tuba." Instruments like the 151 were designed for use in spanish folk bands and were adopted by tuba players like roger bobo for use as a tenor version of their instrument much later. The instrument makers played along by adding fifth valves and larger mouthpiece receivers. You can use it for the orchestral literature, but that's such a small slice of "euphonium" playing that it'd be hard to justify for just that. It's probably most appropriate for don quixote and ein heldenleben, but those were originally scored for tenor wagner tuba, although almost never performed that way these days. Bydlo is intended for french tuba saxhorn. It's probably not a bad fit. Holst wrote tenor tuba on the part in order to avoid a brass band style of playing but certainly had a euphonium in mind. Mahler 7's tenorhorn is a smaller instrument. If you like the instrument, great, but be aware -- you've got the correct instrument for a spanish town band and a compromise for everything else.
    --
    Barry

  6. #6
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    And big $, too.

    DG

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorsworthy View Post
    The Alex 151 has a particular sound and characteristics that are dissimilar to the standard Euphonium as we know it. Either one likes it or doesn't like it, a totally subjective matter. I was probing for people who have spent time on it as well as on a standard Euphonium and would provide me some detailed feedback.
    For this, you would probably do better on Tubenet, I think. More likely to catch someone who's actually played one (or several) there. If you're really just interested in having an Alex 151 (or something like it -- e.g., the Miraphone 56B or the Cerveny CEP 533-5PX, which is at least not as expensive but might well be even stuffier than the Alex in the low register, or might not, just), then I'm not sure how much you can depend on anyone's evaluation since I'd guess there's some real variation in how individual specimens play. But I think Tubenet is your best bet for that sort of information in any event.

    Or if you're looking for some sort of euphonium that has a particular sound that isn't the Brit-compensating-euph particular sound, then maybe a 4-valver like the CEP 533-4 or 434-4A -- assuming you're not in the mood for an oval horn. But if it's really the Alex you're lusting after, then I suspect nothing else will do (maybe even if it IS a little stuffy in some places ).
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    If you like the instrument, great, but be aware -- you've got the correct instrument for a spanish town band and a compromise for everything else.
    And not that there's anything wrong with Spanish town bands , but even Alexander is up front about this on its web page for the 151. And not that what comes out of the 151 bell has a particularly Spanish accent or couldn't be well used in other contexts, but the whole idea of a tenor tuba is a kind of vague meta-concept, as Barry and others have pointed out from time to time. Personally, I've always liked the idea of a large bore 4- or 5-valve non-compensating euph. But in terms of cost/benefit for the vast majority of us, it's just not realistic (and the one the Chinese were making a few years ago was so trashy it couldn't be considered).
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  9. #9
    All valid and good inputs, thanks guys. That being said, let’s go back to the premise that from a trombone player’s perspective, the euphonium lacks higher overtones and sounds dead and dull by comparison, that NOT being a criticism but it is the nature of the beast. If a clearer and brighter euphonium would be the objective, and certainly the Alex 151 has the reputation of clarity, color, brightness from all that I can tell, then it would fit the bill. However, what would the traditional euphonium world provide as an alternative to producing a clearer brighter sound? Perhaps a Willson 2900S, correct?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by snorsworthy View Post
    All valid and good inputs, thanks guys. That being said, let’s go back to the premise that from a trombone player’s perspective, the euphonium lacks higher overtones and sounds dead and dull by comparison, that NOT being a criticism but it is the nature of the beast. If a clearer and brighter euphonium would be the objective, and certainly the Alex 151 has the reputation of clarity, color, brightness from all that I can tell, then it would fit the bill. However, what would the traditional euphonium world provide as an alternative to producing a clearer brighter sound? Perhaps a Willson 2900S, correct?
    I suspect the answer might be within one of the possible configurations of Adams euphoniums. They offer 5 metal thicknesses and 3 metal alloys for the horn, plus an optional sterling silver bell. The E2 is meant to appeal to people who like the Willson, but you can customize it further. The E1 and E3 models have an unsoldered bell rim, while the E2 has a soldered rim. But you can even alter that to your specification.

    I like a larger, open sound with plenty of power-handling capability. I chose the E3 with a sterling bell, in .60 thickness. For a denser, less open sound, I think a soldered bell bead might work toward that. I'm considering an E3 in yellow brass at .70 thickness, thinking it might be less bright at high volume - i'll be testing one before long.

    At an ITEC event I met a gentleman who was perhaps near my age, looking for a sound that was like his classic Besson, but with a more modern response and intonation. There was an E2 in .80 on display and that one matched very well for his taste. At the same show, one of the River City Brass Band wanted a horn, and I believe he ended up choosing a yellow brass .50 thickness (the thinnest available).

    Of course, all these are piston instruments, as are most of the commonly-used professional euphoniums. There is a difference in feel with rotary valves that is hard to describe, but which might suit some players better.

    Lots of choices! If you can get to an ITEC you can try many horns. Adams usually has several configurations so people can get an idea of the range of options. And you could try the Yamaha and XO horns, which might match what you want, too.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
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