Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 19 of 19

Thread: Wessex Euph or Baritone?

  1. #11
    Yeah use of baritones is decreasing pretty quickly to just brass band, even in Dutch-Belgian Fanfare bands the baritone parts are just played on euphs because... reasons I have no idea of :/ I guess it's just easier to place euph players on those parts because they're more common? Which is pretty sad tbh.

    But yeah, euphs are way more useful than baritones overall.

  2. #12
    I agree that, given a binary choice between euph and bari, the euph will get a lot more usage. I did buy a Chinese bari when I was switched from euph to bari in the Brass Band of Huntsville; I wanted to have my own instrument. Otherwise, I would have never considered it.

    However, yesterday the Cullman Community Band played a concert including the Holst 1st Suite, and I played the original bari part
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  3. British baritones are so rare in North America that brass bands tend to buy them for their musicians (tenor horns are also this way). North American baritone players almost always have a euphonium or trombone background, and challenge for most players it to play the baritone in the traditional British style. Those who come from euphonium backgrounds start off on baritone playing like a euphonium, and same for trombonists. It takes time to develop the proper baritone sound...which is different depending on which part you play....and learning how to match whichever instrument you are doubling or harmonizing with (commonly tenor horns, euphoniums, and trombones...with the first baritone often having solos or playing duets with the principal solo cornet).
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Sterling Virtuoso w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE955 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD w/ Bach 1G)

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    288
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    British baritones [snip]....and learning how to match whichever instrument you are doubling or harmonizing with (commonly tenor horns, euphoniums, and trombones...[snip]).
    In my community orchestra, the second trombone part is played on a JinBao British baritone. It works okay in our section, and no one would mistake it for the blend of a professional orchestra (I play lead on a medium-bore Bach 36B, the baritone plays second, and the third part is played on a small bore Yamaha tenor [yeah, I know that's just wrong]).
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1, Kadja, and DE 101XTG9 mouthpieces
    Bach 36B trombone; pBone; Vincent Bach (from 1971) 6.5AL mouthpiece
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo) and Delilah (the cavipoo puppy) keep me company while practicing

  5. Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    British baritones are so rare in North America that brass bands tend to buy them for their musicians (tenor horns are also this way). North American baritone players almost always have a euphonium or trombone background, and challenge for most players it to play the baritone in the traditional British style. Those who come from euphonium backgrounds start off on baritone playing like a euphonium, and same for trombonists. It takes time to develop the proper baritone sound...which is different depending on which part you play....and learning how to match whichever instrument you are doubling or harmonizing with (commonly tenor horns, euphoniums, and trombones...with the first baritone often having solos or playing duets with the principal solo cornet).
    James, you hit the nail on the head. Bravo!

    It is absolutely important to listen to who you are playing with in the brass band and color your playing appropriately. I have been playing 1st baritone for 10 years now with the New England Brass Band. It took me two whole seasons to come to grips with the sound of the baritone. The key for me was:

    1. Choosing the right mouthpiece. Since I usually use a Wick 4AL, I tried all flavors of Wick 4 (SM4B, 4AY, 4BS), Wick 5 (5BS), Wick 6 (6BS, SM6B) and even the Alliance B6 that comes with a 2056 Prestige. None worked well. I went back to my 6 1/2AL and found range, intonation, and response were MUCH better. Finally I settled on the Bach 5G (small shank) and found it to be the best compromise for me.
    2. Listening to good players - KATRINA MARZELLA, Helen Harrelson, get the older CD "Baritones to the Fore", search You Tube for solos featuring Katrina
    3. Listening to your band mates - Try to think what the difference between tone matching euphs (usually "underneath them", versus adding depth to the trombones, vs. playing in section with the horns (including flugel) should sound like. Color you sound accordingly. Getting a "quieter" euph sound, vs. "fuller" trombone sound, vs. more bell-like horn sound are each very different.
    4. Getting used to the horn - The band's York 3056 four valve baritone was pitchy and responded differently depending which overtone series I was in. The 4th valve was nearly useless and made the ergonomics of the horn very tiring. Also, it is easy to overblow most baritones for euphers used to putting lots of air through the horn. Purchasing my heavy bell Sterling solved ALL of those problems. Pitch is MUCH better, response is MUCH better, easier to achieve the tone I want, and the heavy bell makes it easier to play at high levels without rattling the bell.


    Doug
    Sterling Virtuoso 1052HS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HS baritone & Conn 24I/25I euphonium
    New England Brass Band/Metropolitan Wind Symphony
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  6. #16
    I guess you purists are correct, the euphonium is the correct choice, but not the only choice. I play a BR-140 in a community band. I play it TC just like a trumpet. Frankly, it is fast easy to play and sound good enough for most community bands. Is it an upgrade over the student euphonium, I'd say a definite yes. Would your community band can about or even notice the sound difference between the two horn choices, I'd say no. Has anyone mentioned to you that the baritone is 1/2 the price? The baritone feels more like a trumpet. As a trumpet player, you will find the transition very easy. In my opinion, neither horn is a bad choice.
    Wessex BR140
    Bunch of Eb tubas

  7. Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    James, you hit the nail on the head. Bravo!

    It is absolutely important to listen to who you are playing with in the brass band and color your playing appropriately. I have been playing 1st baritone for 10 years now with the New England Brass Band. It took me two whole seasons to come to grips with the sound of the baritone. The key for me was:

    1. Choosing the right mouthpiece. Since I usually use a Wick 4AL, I tried all flavors of Wick 4 (SM4B, 4AY, 4BS), Wick 5 (5BS), Wick 6 (6BS, SM6B) and even the Alliance B6 that comes with a 2056 Prestige. None worked well. I went back to my 6 1/2AL and found range, intonation, and response were MUCH better. Finally I settled on the Bach 5G (small shank) and found it to be the best compromise for me.
    2. Listening to good players - KATRINA MARZELLA, Helen Harrelson, get the older CD "Baritones to the Fore", search You Tube for solos featuring Katrina
    3. Listening to your band mates - Try to think what the difference between tone matching euphs (usually "underneath them", versus adding depth to the trombones, vs. playing in section with the horns (including flugel) should sound like. Color you sound accordingly. Getting a "quieter" euph sound, vs. "fuller" trombone sound, vs. more bell-like horn sound are each very different.
    4. Getting used to the horn - The band's York 3056 four valve baritone was pitchy and responded differently depending which overtone series I was in. The 4th valve was nearly useless and made the ergonomics of the horn very tiring. Also, it is easy to overblow most baritones for euphers used to putting lots of air through the horn. Purchasing my heavy bell Sterling solved ALL of those problems. Pitch is MUCH better, response is MUCH better, easier to achieve the tone I want, and the heavy bell makes it easier to play at high levels without rattling the bell.


    Doug
    Thanks Doug! It's always nice meeting up with like-minded brass banders!

    Since I started on baritone, I've gone from a Schilke 51d to a Denis Wick Heritage 4 and now a Denis Wick 6BY. You'll note the trend of each mouthpiece getting smaller -- which is by design as I strive to find a mouthpiece that works with my chops and allows me to obtain the first baritone sound I'm looking for. If I were ever to play second baritone I'd probably switch back to the Heritage 4, as it has more of a darker sound that the second baritone should have (IMO of course).

    The band owns a Besson 955 that I play, and it's not anything spectacular (2 and 3 valve combinations are 30-40 cents flat so I have to fight that). I've played it long enough that I know its quirks and can match other instruments well and in tune, as well as produce the shimmering British style vibrato that helps to give the brass band its characteristic sound. I'd love to pick up a Yamaha Neo baritone -- IMO they are the best on the market.
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Sterling Virtuoso w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE955 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD w/ Bach 1G)

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    The band owns a Besson 955 that I play, and it's not anything spectacular (2 and 3 valve combinations are 30-40 cents flat so I have to fight that). I've played it long enough that I know its quirks and can match other instruments well and in tune, as well as produce the shimmering British style vibrato that helps to give the brass band its characteristic sound. I'd love to pick up a Yamaha Neo baritone -- IMO they are the best on the market.
    I have the Jinhao clone of the 955, and you are so right about the 3rd-valve combinations. Sometimes I have to work the main tuning slide like a trigger.
    David Bjornstad

    1923 Conn New Wonder 86I, Bach 6 1/2 AL
    2018 Wessex EP100 Dolce, Denis Wick 4ABL
    2013 Jinbao JBEP-1111L, Denis Wick 4AM
    2015 Jinbao JBBR-1240, Denis Wick clone mouthpiece of unknown designation
    Cullman (AL) Community Band (Euph Section Leader)
    Brass Band of Huntsville (2nd Bari)

  9. I really do appreciate playing my Yamaha Baritone on a day, when we have several birthday serenades outdoors. The Bari is very handy, lightweight and easy to transport. The bright sound has good projection outdoors. Instrumentation then is: Tuba, Euph, Bari, 2 Trumpets. Holding an Euph for a longer period of time while standing can be tiring. Because of the handiness it sees more practice time. I always take it with me: on holidays, to my office, outdoors. My wife (Violonist) prefers me accompanying her on the Baritone. I play my instrument with a large mouthpiece which gives it a rich and singing timbre. In a British-style Brassband I´d use a much smaller mp.
    Lots of aspects to think of. If I could buy only one instrument... well, today I myself would choose the Bari.
    **********************************
    Sterling Virtuoso / Giddings Kadja
    Yamaha 642 II / Giddings Kadja
    Yamaha YBH 831S / Giddings Kadja S
    Yamaha Flügelhorn 631GS / DW2FL

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •