Wessex Dolce Problems

[whiteman]

Hi folks.....my 1st post on this forum so a big high from me.

Very recently bought my Dolce Eupho and proceeded to unpack & play it, almost immediately found that the valves had a coating of preservative oil on them which required a thorough clean...…….not much joy with that so had a chat with my local dealer who suggested the instrument go to a professional service company for cleaning, this was done & I received the eupho back yesterday, a big improvement but still experiencing sluggish valve response with 1st & 2nd valves not returning to their upper position in a suitable timeframe, this occurs after a few minutes playing either fast or slow.

I`m returning the instrument to the dealer tomorrow but has anyone else experienced this and if so, what was your remedy.

[DEF1]

All new valves instruments need time for the valves to bed in. In the first few weeks you need to regular clean and oil the valves and they should then settle down. I’ve not heard of many problems with the Dolce valves so give it a few weeks and see how you get on.

[John Morgan]

I also would think the valves will settle in. What type of valve oil are you using? I would give it a few days. At least use the period you have before you return it (use the full two weeks I think it is). If the valves are working at first, then get sluggish, either cleaning or different valve oil probably. It is possible you have "junk" in the tubing around the valves as well, that might be getting blown into the valve chamber. Take a snake and clean out from the receiver and leadpipe up to the 1st valve.

[ghmerrill]

While you can expect to face some minor "break in" period with piston valve instruments, the degree of severity that you describe facing shouldn't be expected "out of the box". Nonetheless, you may discover that playing it for several days or a week with the right oil may result in a dramatic improvement.

Still, continuing reports of this sort always make me wonder about the statements vendors make about play-testing instruments before shipping and about their continuing policy/habit of shipping instruments that just haven't been cleaned in any reasonable way. At the very least, they should stop claiming play-testing if they don't really do it, and they should include a clear statement in big red letters that you need to thoroughly clean the instrument before using it -- and include specific instructions of how to do it. Certainly most customers don't expect to have to pay for a professional cleaning in order just to play their new instrument.

So what's the "right oil". Well, in my experience with these Chinese instruments, the valves are very tight on them -- which is actually a good thing if not overdone. So you want a thin valve oil. I use Yamaha Light (not the Regular or Vintage) Synthetic Valve oil. But others prefer different oils. And some prefer non-synthetic ). If you've cleaned it thoroughly (detergent, flushing repeatedly through the valve section to be sure you've got everything out of there), then apply your thin oil and play it for several days, and see how it goes before returning it. The best way to do this is to pull the tuning slide and power rinse the instrument from the mouthpipe. (I actually built a dedicated apparatus for cleaning my tubas and euphs in this way.)

If you want a thin valve oil specifically for this purpose before you decide on your long term choice and happen to have any ultra-pure lamp oil, just use that. It's simply highly refined kerosene. While you can get it at hardware stores, Walmart, etc., going out and buying a bottle of it will cost you as much as buying a decent brand of thin genuine valve oil from Amazon. But if you have some lying around, it would be a way to go -- if you don't object to the slight kerosene smell and taste. Then, of course, reclean the instrument thoroughly again.

Another thing you might try -- just as a test -- is to use soap and water as the valve lubricant. This won't last long, but if you put a soapy water solution on your valves (or dip them in it), and then see how they work, this could be very telling (also, you're again cleaning the valves by doing this). If the valves are sticky and hard to move when you try this a couple of times with the soap-water lubrication, that points in the direction of a honing or break-in problem at the factory, and probably not something you want to be responsible for yourself. But otherwise, if by a good cleaning (just by you instead of investing in a "professional" one at this point), and thin valve oil, you can get it to work to your initial satisfaction, then it's better to go in that direction instead of going through the hassle of returning it and starting all over with another.

[guidocorona]

Hello Whiteman, if you have not done this already, you should consider contacting Steve Markus at Wessex:

Phone: 616.843.6888

Regards, Guido

[whiteman]

Thanks for the speedy replies.....BUT note what I said originally the the eupho was sent to to a service professional for a thorough clean at the request of the selling dealer. He reports there was very little evidence of impurities in the fresh cleaning liquid he used, so it`s a mystery at this stage.

In answer to your questions about type of valve oil used......I`ve been a longtime user of "Al Cass", however a friend recently told me he uses kerosene undiluted, only problem is the smell for a short period.

About how long should I expect the "running in period" to be ??

[ghmerrill]

In Dave's new articles on valves, he seems to suggest a week or two. Certainly if I didn't see some obvious improvement in a week of daily playing (to at least some degree), I'd be concerned.

[davewerden]

Note that my advice is to start the running-in period with daily cleanings, and then gradually stretch the interval between cleanings. Even if my valves aren't sluggish I still do this. Try it for a couple weeks and see what happens.

If there is no improvement during that time, I'd say something unusual is going on.

Sterling went through a period where some valves would stick unpredictably even once the horn was broken in. The problem turned out to be the kind of lapping compound they used. It was able to "hide" in some of the tubes and then seep into the valves at random times. They power-washed the horns at the factory, but this stuff was quite stubborn. Their remedy was to switch to a different compound that was more easily rinsed out. This doesn't sound like what is going on here, or more users would be having the problem, but I mention it to show how some unsuspected causes may exists.

[John Morgan]

I also remember that when I owned a Yamaha 842S, I had sluggish valves. I switched to another brand (I think a thin oil) and immediately the valves "loosened up" and the sluggishness went away. I used to use Al Cass, and that very well might have been the oil I switched from. Some oils just don't do well with tight tolerance valves, and maybe this is the case here.

[lzajmom]

I wasn't very happy with the valve action on my Dolce out of the box either. It took more than a week, but after thorough cleaning and dumping a gallon of Blue Juice on them and then cleaning them thoroughly and then adding a few gallons of Blue Juice, I've become very happy with the valves.

I also expected the slides to be properly greased upon arrival, but they weren't. After the second valve slide fell out three times in one rehearsal, while playing, I pulled it out, cleaned it up, and smothered it with oops-that-was-way-too-much Monster slide grease. I haven't had any problems since.

I'm sorry you're having problems with it, and I share your frustration that it isn't ready to play upon arrival. However, let me encourage you that after a few weeks of TLC, mine is doing great and I'm finally starting to love it! Hopefully yours will come together as well.

[EuphGuy]

FWIW, the Mack euph (essentially the same horn as the Wessex) that I owned for a number of years LOVED Blue Juice. I had zero valve issues the whole time I owned it. I also took the advice of others and wiped the valves down with a lint free cloth each time I played and re-oiled them for about the first month.....there’s quite a bit of black gunk from the manufacturing process and break-in that will have to work it’s way out over time. For me, the Blue juice seemed to have a solvent type effect and kept the valves clean and trouble free on that horn.

In contrast, my current horn HATES Blue Juice....so I no longer use it. I kind of miss the smell. : )

[lzajmom]

I kind of miss the smell. : )

You can't be serious. Blegh!

[whiteman]

After a friendly discussion with selling dealer I`ve returned the instrument for him to look at & play...….have a tentative agreement for them to take this one back & supply another new one......will see what happens & report latter.

Fortunately my old Besson is still in great trim so will use that meanwhile.....speaking of which it was originally purchased new by a friend who played it until ill health overtook him and he gave the instrument to a Band I now play in. It is about 35/36 years old and in excellent order. I first came upon about 5/6 years ago stored in a garage of the then Band Secretary along with 4 others. Took one look at it & took it home. After a thorough clean up, valve service & some other TLC put it back into service......tuning is excellent & I love playing, so the new Wessex has a bit to beat but it`s un-surprising that new technology does make life easier, once the valve issue is behind us.

Cheers

Frank

[guidocorona]

A Wessex "Dealer"?!

I thought Wessex in North America sold only direct to consumers.

G.

[ghmerrill]

You can't be serious. Blegh!

Exactly.