Name That Horn

[lzajmom]

Found this beauty in the basement of our church this evening. She's a little beat up, but she plays beautifully. The valves are bone dry and the mouthpiece absolutely will not come out, but I played higher than I've ever played before, and with very little effort.

Any idea what it is?

[davewerden]

Not a clue! Can you give us a couple shots of the front of the bell section? That's usually where the logo would be.

[ghmerrill]

In terms of the ferrules, valve caps, valve markings, etc., it looks a LOT like my 1924 Eb tuba (but it's obviously a baritone/euph). It's quite possibly older. The fact that it doesn't have an 'L' on the second valve may indicate that it's high pitch. Get a tuner and see what the actual pitch of the open horn is.

Although it looks like the Buescher, there are no Buescher markings on it. But it sure LOOKS like my Buescher. It also is a lot like a 1909 Buescher Tenor horn in Bb.

Here's a picture of my 1924 tuba, and a catalog photo of the 1909 tenor horn. I'd guess it's not as old as the 1909. If it's not a Buescher, it's definitely something similar.

[lzajmom]

It looks a LOT like that 1909 except the locale of the spit valve. Good eye!

I'll be back up there later today and will try to sneak downstairs for more pictures.

[TD517]

Closely looking at the bell in the second picture, you can see some outlines of where I think the logo is (or once was). Looks like it's a burst shape of some nature, but doesn't match the Buescher perfectly. A clear picture of that section should help, as Dave suggested as well.

[ghmerrill]

If it is a Buescher, the serial number would put it as 1913 vintage. The horizontal 2nd valve is unusual in baritone/euphonium Bb instruments, and seems to have virtually disappeared in that group after 1910. I've been looking on a number of sites and can't find anything that looks more like it than that catalog picture of the Buescher tenor horn.

It may have been buffed heavily at some point in its life. The silver plating on those horns (certainly on my 1924) was substantial, and you could get "double" or "triple" thickness as options. So you could buff your heart away and not hit brass.

[lzajmom]

I ran out of time to hit the basement before having to deal with the littles, but I'll try again later this week. I also sent these pictures to our local repair shop so they could give me a quote for restoration. They'd have to send it off for re-plating though.

Gary, I'm kinda amazed by your historical knowledge.

[ghmerrill]

Gary, I'm kinda amazed by your historical knowledge.

My historical knowledge is really pretty lame. It's just that I learned a bunch about Buescher tubas when I got mine. And I've had a lot of experience with information mining and retrieval.

[bbocaner]

I'm not so sure it was made by Buescher. They tended to use all telescopic braces and stays and the photos show an instrument with fixed stays. Also, knurling pattern on the valve caps and the majority of the valve buttons doesn't match any photos of other instruments by Buescher I can find, although they could have been changed or could have used different designs at different times.

Lots of instruments at the time were made with similar patterns though. I agree with the thought that it's early 20th century.

I don't think it's worth putting $1000+ into restoration. Typically the ones worth restoring are the ones made by famous makers, or with special engraving, or that are really unique designs or historically significant.

[ghmerrill]

Barry makes some good points. The knurling on my 1924 Buescher are all cross-hatched, but the ones on this specimen are not. In addition, even in 1909 Buescher was using the "True Tone" trademark on its instruments, and this instrument shows no evidence of that engraved logo on the rear of the 2nd valve where it would be expected to be. It looks as though there was some sort of logo or trademark there, but it appears to have been buffed off if there was.

So I guess I'd call it "Buescher-like". However, there were a number of manufacturers at that point and several of them had very similar designs. In particular, Buescher had worked for Conn for about twenty (?) years, and certainly borrowed a lot from that experience.

I agree that it's not worth putting much into in terms of repair (or certainly restoration). The finish is very worn in a lot of places, and I'd bet that its high pitch. If it is, then playing with a modern ensemble would be unpleasant for everyone involved. And modifying it to A=440 would be costly and probably not entirely satisfactory.

[highpitch]

Another Elkhart knockoff. Thousands made...

Charlie may have something like it: http://www.euphoniumcollective.co.uk/neweuph.htm

DG

[highpitch]

Ah, found it: American Standard

https://www.ebay.com/itm/American-St....c100005.m1851

DG

[bbocaner]

that's a match! nicely done, highpitch.

[lzajmom]

That's amazing!! Good work, highpitch!

Really though, 3-valve euphonium? Is that right?

[RickF]

Yes, there are 3-valve euphoniums. There's a lot of misunderstanding about euphonium vs baritone. Many thought if it had 3 valves, it has to be a baritone and that euphoniums always have 4 valves. It has to do with bore of the instrument... cylindrical vs conical. See Dave Werden's article on baritone vs euphonium here:

Baritone or Euphonium: