Euphonium to Trombone

[John Morgan]

Yes, but with a valve, you don't need 7th position.

How true. I don't see 7th position very often. My bass trombone and tenor (with F attachment) allow me the pleasure of not traveling out to 6th and 7th position, even though my arms are longer than King Kong's. I do, however, sometimes play low E natural in 7th position if it is a fairly long note and particularly if it is soft. This because the 7th position low E natural just flat out sounds better in 7th than long 2nd with trigger.

A little off subject, but triggers and 7th position remind of the piece we are playing in orchestra at the moment. Russian Sailor's Dance. Talk about an awkward bit about half to two thirds of the way through with the trigger going on and off at rapid speed. I am talking about the Bass Trombone (3rd) part. I can't imagine anyone playing that at written tempo without a trigger, and even then it is nasty, particularly if you are interested in the precise positions (trigger and long 2nd, vs. no trigger and regular 2nd).

[ghmerrill]

This because the 7th position low E natural just flat out sounds better in 7th than long 2nd with trigger.

I can't say that this is true for my horn (or maybe it's not true for me and is just a comment on the poor quality of my E on the straight horn ).

I was going to ask you if this was true for each of the valves, but I see that you have one of those double valve basses where the valves -- obviously through some manufacturing defect -- aren't arranged correctly and so limit your options. I'd take it back and get that fixed.

[John Morgan]

...I was going to ask you if this was true for each of the valves, but I see that you have one of those double valve basses where the valves -- obviously through some manufacturing defect -- aren't arranged correctly and so limit your options. I'd take it back and get that fixed.

Yes, the good old dependent rotor system. When the opportunity to play bass trombone arose about 9 years ago, I had no bass trombone, so quickly had to figure out what to get. Douglas Yeo influenced the decision a lot. Then when I got his signature trombone (the Yamaha), I didn't know for another year or two that you could completely remove the D valve section. And then I realized what the extra slide was that came with the horn (mind you no instructions at all). Can't say I like this better or worse than the independent rotor bass trombone, because I haven't played the in-line system. But, the horn I have works for me. In this case, ignorance is bliss (although I have read a fair amount on the pros and cons of both systems).

[John the Theologian]

As a trombonist who is a euphonium doubler I have just the opposite problem. I'm not as used to adjusting the embouchure for intonation as many of you "native'" euphonium players are. I know when I used to play my non-compeensating Yamaha 321 it was even worse than when I switched to my Mack Brass compensating horn.

I'm too used to playing the notes in "short' and "long" positions and I sometimes forget that those done't exist on a euphonium.

[ghmerrill]

... Douglas Yeo influenced the decision a lot. ... Can't say I like this better or worse than the independent rotor bass trombone, because I haven't played the in-line system.

Yes, I was heavily swayed by Doug's views as well and wrung my hands a lot over the choice. But my primary decision at the time was whether to go the more costly high-end top-brand way, or to go the real low-ball way. I'd had a Holton TR-181 many years ago, but never learned to play it well -- partly because the ergonomics were discouraging for me.

If I'd decided to go the high-end way, I almost certainly would have chosen dependent valves. That seemed to be less complicated and to have certain advantages over the in-lines. But I finally decided to go low-end so that I could experiment with ergonomics and other features until I learned what I really liked and could do -- and then maybe make a decision about a better horn.

Schiller was as low-end as I could go and still have confidence that I'd have a playable horn. I'd tried a Yamaha YBL-830 clone and just didn't like it for some inexpressible reason, and so went in the 7B clone direction. After a few relatively minor mods to the horn it became, to me, an ergonomic dream, and a great player. Now, I would not consider a dependent valve system. I'm too addicted to the second valve, and in fact probably use the Gb valve more than the F. It's just more versatile in the staff where it gives you that extra half-step and otherwise covers much of what you'd use the F valve for anyway. I'd like to try a dependent valve horn at some point; but to me, giving up the independent second valve would be like giving up the 4th valve on a euphonium.

[enhite]

I recently noticed that David Vining has published a book entitled "Trombone Intonation Mastery." I don't have direct experience with this book, but have another of Prof. Vinings books (Range Songs) and have found it useful. I suspect that, given Prof. Vining's reputation, this would be a very useful book also. (In fact, I might buy a copy for myself.)
It is available from Amazon, directly from his publisher Mountain Peak Music (www.mountainpeakmusic.com) or maybe your local music store could get it.
Hope that you have an enjoyable experience playing trombone (but also hope that you keep up your euphonium playing.