Bell in the way of seeing the conductor

[Harry Hilgers]

I am new on the forum.

I am a trumpet player who decided to double up on euphonium/baritone. I was able to buy on the cheap a brand new King 625.

I have been playing it relative successfully in our geezer concert band for about two months.

My problem is that the bell is in between my eyes and the conductor.

I can go through all kinds body/seat adjustments/gyrations to make it work SOMEWHAT but this can be very distractive on my performance.

My question is: what baritone horns or euphoniums are wrapped in a way that I can see over the bell?

Thanks
Harry

[RickF]

Welcome to the forum. The King 625 has its bell facing to your left so I would try shifting your chair a bit to the left so you can see the Dir. Just 15 or 20 degrees should work. With a ‘right-facing’ bell I shift my chair to the right a bit.

[ghmerrill]

Part of the problem may be how you're holding the horn. And a big part of that problem may be either with its weight or issues you have with arm strength or arthritis. Do you use a support for the horn, or do you just try to hold it up with your hands and arms? Or do you attempt to rest it directly on your lap (with no cushion or support)?

I'd suggest that you experiment with some kind of support (or alternatives to what you're now using) so that you don't need to support ANY of the weight of the instrument and can just use your hands and arms to orient it. I think that most of us (certainly of a "certain age") use some kind of support like this while playing seated.

Also, you're not going to see OVER the bell. It's not a trumpet. You need to see PAST the bell -- to the left of the bell if it's right-facing (typical euphonium with upright valves); or to the right of the bell if it's left-facing (typical front-action American baritone/euphonium).

Once you get the horn supported so that (a) it's at the correct height (not forcing you to bend up or down to meet the mouthpiece), and (b) you can then orient it correctly with no effort so that you can (c) see past the bell and and see the conductor, then (d) you should be able to play without event thinking about holding or wrestling with the instrument.

[ametropia]

I hold my euphonium seated on my left knee, tilted to the right, and when I tilt it to the right I can see the director past the left side of the bell. Sometimes I twist my chair in just a bit on the left side to get a better view more comfortably.

[davewerden]

The advice above is good. Another option is to buy a used American euphonium (baritone horn) with a curved, adjustable bell. The valves are in front, the bell leans to your left, and you could adjust the curve angle to get out of your way. Lee Stofer might still have the beautiful used Conn he showed me, which works this way.


And if all else fails...

[davewerden]

Here is another curved-bell Conn on eBay right now. This has short-action valves, which might appeal to a trumpet player:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Con...n/202606294397

[RickF]

Just kidding but I remember seeing this strange saxhorn.

[Clayton M.]

If the images that I am seeing on the internet for a King 625 is the same as your horn, perhaps leaning from your right knee toward the left might make more sense.

[Harry Hilgers]

Thanks much for all your replies. I just now read through all your posts. I will digest them over the next few days.

At a first glance it appears that I have tried about every option/position that has been mentioned.

I used no strap, a purpose build strap, shifting/ rotating my chair in different ways, leaning the horn in different ways, etc. If I do find a good position the mouthpiece doesn’t line up properly with my chops.

Anyway, let me digest all your suggestions and try anything that I have not tried yet.

Meanwhile I have a question:
What is a Three Quarter size baritone horn or euphonium. What does it mean to be “three-quarter” in size?

Lastly, I now have my eyes/mind set on a Yamaha YBH-831S Neo Series Bb Baritone Horn. I will have to save up some $$$ first though.

I kind of like the idea of a 3-valve compensated horn. (I have a hard time playing the King in tune).

Dave Werden seems to like that Yam baritone. (Dave, I read your posts on it.)

I would love to get as much as possible feedback from others in this horn.

[ghmerrill]

I used no strap, a purpose build strap, shifting/ rotating my chair in different ways, leaning the horn in different ways, etc. If I do find a good position the mouthpiece doesn’t line up properly with my chops.

This says to me that you need something at least like a cushion on your lap to rest the bottom of the euph on and orient the mouthpiece with your chops.

[ametropia]

If I do find a good position the mouthpiece doesn’t line up properly with my chops.

I have the same problem, which leads me to raising my left leg where the horn sits until I'm on my tip toes, and resting my raised heel against the chair leg. Sounds uncomfortable but it works for and isn't terribly bad.

Lap pads wouldn't work for me unless they were attached to the bottom of my horn somehow, because to be perfectly frank, I'm fat and my stomach takes up extra room on my lap, a loose object on my lap that wasn't tied to either my lap or the horn would always be falling off.

I kind of like the idea of a 3-valve compensated horn. (I have a hard time playing the King in tune).

I love, love, love 3-valve comp horns, my Baritone and my Euphonium are both this, and I've no interest in a 4th valve at all. This is typically fine for community bands and for-pleasure playing where certain demands that might require the 4th valve are not really present.

That all being said, a compensated horn is in no way a magic bullet for not playing in tune or solving intonation issues. It should come with time and good habits that you will be able to at least assist yourself relatively into tune on just about any horn that doesn't have a mechanical/design fault of some kind. Within reason, I mean some horns are just impossible

Meanwhile I have a question:
What is a Three Quarter size baritone horn or euphonium. What does it mean to be “three-quarter” in size?

I've never heard the term '3/4 size' -- could it be referring to a British Baritone? My Wessex BR140 is a British Baritone, it is significantly smaller than an American-style Baritone or a Euphonium. It is not necessary (or even reasonably possible) to sit the horn on a lap, requires being held up at all times typically, and I never had any problem seeing the director with my baritone since it was so easy to put it into any number of angles/positions while up in the air in my arms. In particular for that horn, I have a hand strap, which just makes it easier.

[Harry Hilgers]

I've never heard the term '3/4 size' -- ......

https://www.wwbw.com/King-623-Diplom...rn-468355.wwbw

[ghmerrill]

So that's a down-sized 3-valve non-compensating euphonium designed specifically for middle school students. Probably not your ideal choice.

[ametropia]

Ohhh so literally it is like a 3/4 size violin or cello or guitar, more for youth due to smaller stature. Interesting!

[Harry Hilgers]

Welcome to the forum. The King 625 has its bell facing to your left so I would try shifting your chair a bit to the left so you can see the Dir. Just 15 or 20 degrees should work. With a ‘right-facing’ bell I shift my chair to the right a bit.

Rick thanks for the welcome and thanks for your reply.
My King 625 bell actually bends straight forward. Many of the internet pics are very deceiving.

I have tried pretty much any shifting/rotating of the chair. No real improvements.

Thanks again for your reply.
Cheers,
Harry