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Thread: Just getting back into it, need help with a good brand

  1. Just getting back into it, need help with a good brand

    Hello all!

    I am new to this site, and after 7-ish years of not playing was wanting to get back into it. I'm looking for a good cheaper brand horn to buy as this will be entirely for pleasure. I may look into joining a local community band, but that won't necessitate an expensive professional horn.

    I have done some research, and had my eye on the Schiller Elite IV Compensating horn, though I had a couple questions:

    1) For the price, is it a good horn? I've read pretty good things about it from the scant reviews on other websites, but I wanted to see if I could get a bit more insight.

    2) Does anybody know if jimlaabs ships reliably? They have the lowest price for the horn that I've found, but I can find basically nothing about their shipping process or reviews about it anywhere, so I was wondering if anyone here has used them in the past. With such a big purchase, I want to make sure I'm getting a good product at low risk of damage (for reference, I live in the southern US, so they'd have to ship it a fair distance).

    I really appreciate any help that anybody can give me in answering my questions!

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum! A 7-year break isn't bad - I've got a student now who took more like a 30- or 40-year break!

    I've heard good and bad reports on Jim Laabs. Overall I think they are OK, but I don't know for sure.

    An option to consider is Wessex. They have a better reputation for service overall, and they horns they sell have been upgraded in several ways over & above the Schiller model.

    https://wessex-tubas.com/collections...12238594342969

    You can get it in lacquered finish (the cheapest), silver plated, or silver with gold trim.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    I'm almost 20 years out, coming back to the Baritone horn, oh boy it isn't like riding a bike. I came back also just for pleasure and playing in intermediate community band. And I thought "Let's start with something cheapish", and I just want to put my experience somewhere with regard to Wessex.

    I can't say if it's the same for the Euphs, but as far as Baritones: I started with a Wessex BR140 (lacquer, though I wasn't expecting the gold lacquer horn, I thought I purchased the silver horn), and I found it difficult to ramp up with the horn. I thought it was just the 20 years showing. I still have it and still play it, and it's not a bad instrument at all, but the word I would use to describe the horn is "stuffy". It's just difficult to play no matter what you do. It also had several issues such as a loose main tuning slide, valves that wouldn't break in (relentlessly sticking), etc.

    I then rented a Jupiter horn from the local music store to see if it was me or the horn, because I had to know: "Am I really this bad? Or is something else happening" -- The difference was clear: The Jupiter horn was easy to play, a hundred times over. Now it might be easy to say the Wessex could have been a lemon, and that's what I figured it must be -- but I actually went through a replacement with Wessex to a different horn (went from Lacquer to Silver), and while the second horn was an improvement (tuning slide and valves were no longer an issue), I'll tell you it is still very difficult to play compared to the Jupiter I rented.

    I then recently purchased an old Besson New Standard horn which is hard to make a comparison because my first two horns were Baritones and the Besson is a Euphonium, but I can honestly tell you I haven't picked the Wessex back up since the Besson arrived, and there is no way -- NO way -- I would ever go back to 'I can live with cheapish' ever again. Even though I only wanted to play 'for pleasure', I just found no pleasure in the cheaper option at all, and I regret buying it. I regularly think about selling it these days.

    * Clarification: The Jupiter Baritone horn and the Besson New Standard Euphonium were *equally* easy to play is what I'm trying to say, and the Wessex was stuffy and difficult.

    If I had to do it again, you know what I would do?

    Buy an old but reliable brand in a beat-up horn. As long as it plays, who cares what it looks like. I think you will be better off this way. You can find plenty on Ebay.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Last edited by ametropia; 02-17-2019 at 04:23 PM. Reason: clarification
    "Thig crioch air an saoghal, ach mairidh gaol is ceòl."
    "The end (of the world) will come, but love and music live forever."

    Euph: Geneva Symphony (4v-comp, trig)
    Euph: Besson New Standard (3v-comp 1978)
    Bari: Wessex BR-140 (3v-comp, lacquer)
    Mpcs: Euph (SM4) Bari (Stork T1)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    I bought my bass trombone from Laabs. It was shipped promptly and, as I recall, arrived in a couple of days. I had one minor problem with the horn and they expedited a new part to me overnight.

    When you're buying Chinese stencil horns, a lot of what you're paying for is peace of mind. Higher price will generally get you more confidence in terms of warranty, customer service, and response. The best thing to do is to address and probe those issues with the vendor before you make the purchase, ask specific and pointed questions, and follow up if anything's not clear. If you don't get good and satisfying answers at that point, you're probably not going to get them after you buy. If you do get them, then you have a record to serve as a base for any future support.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by ametropia View Post
    I then recently purchased an old Besson New Standard horn which is hard to make a comparison because my first two horns were Baritones and the Besson is a Euphonium, but I can honestly tell you I haven't picked the Wessex back up since the Besson arrived, and there is no way -- NO way -- I would ever go back to 'I can live with cheapish' ever again.
    But certainly one way of reading this is that you enjoy (and have had much more success at) playing a euphonium than the baritones you tried. To draw any conclusion about the overall quality of those baritones -- based on THIS experience -- would be very peculiar. It's like saying you tried several clarinets, couldn't get comfortable playing one, then got an alto sax and it was a great experience for you. That would say more about you than about the clarinets. And it's not exactly fair to condemn the clarinets on that basis.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    A Wessex can be a very good horn, especially for the $. But I wouldn't trade my New Standard for one.

    Dennis

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,867
    I am a professional player, been around forever, and I play an Adams E3 custom euphonium as my main horn. But I also own a Wessex Dolce euphonium (for three years), and it is a very, very good horn. I have been playing it exclusively for the past month, and am again reminded of how great this horn is. It is not my Adams E3, but it is a very good horn that I have no problem playing anything on in public or private at any time. For the money, in my opinion, you simply cannot go wrong with the Wessex Dolce euphonium. Period.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

  8. #8
    Hi there, I was in the same boat and decided to start playing after 15years off. I was playing a tired old Jupiter 560 Marching horn in our church orchestra. After a few months I decided to get something new. Now the euphonium player has the Schiller your looking at, and loves it. I wanted the Wessex 3 valve compensating British baritone. But after looking his euphonium over and playing I searched out Schiller. I had found a 3 valve compensating baritone by Schiller from Jim laabs on eBay. It was an open box item but brand new. I was super worried about buying it online and from Jim laabs (who doesn’t have the best reputation online) but it was about $400 cheaper than the Wessex. So I decided to go for it. Came in about 4 days. Very well packed, a box then another box then peanuts then a box then form fitted foam then the case. The case is really nice for the price. The horn is beautiful and plays much better than my old Jupiter. It came with a bottle of blue juice and le Blanc slide grease. The mouthpiece I believe is a Dennis wick clone 6bs and Plays well but I prefer a smaller mp. My only complaints are. On the euphonium and baritone the springs can be loud. And the threads on my valve caps are too fine and can be a pain to get on. But for me someone who plays 3 times a week at church. Who can scratch out 30 minutes a day for practice. It’s perfect I would definitely go with the same horn again.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by BaptistBaritone View Post
    On the euphonium and baritone the springs can be loud.
    See if you can get plastic coated Yamaha springs for them. That's what I'm using.

    And the threads on my valve caps are too fine and can be a pain to get on.
    Typical. I have yet to see one of these Chinese piston-valve instruments with really well-cut threads and hard enough brass. Oddly, the rotary valves on my Schiller bass trombone don't seem to be bad.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #10
    Ok, thanks ghmerrill I have to try the springs. Where do you think would be a good place to get them online?

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