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My New Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal Euphonium

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  • spkissane
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2011
    • 226

    My New Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal Euphonium

    Long post alert:

    This past Saturday I received my new Geneva Oldroyd Cardinal euphonium, and I wanted to post a few first impressions, since I know a lot of people (myself included, obviously) have been curious about the Geneva brand in general.

    Note: All my impressions are in comparison to the Willson 2900 I've played on since college.

    First off, it's a stunning horn to look at. The photos don't do it justice. From what I learned you can get a variety of options on these horns. This one is silver plated with red brass slides and black bottom valve caps, a tuning slide kicker, and there's extensive engraving along the bell (which I know won't be everyone's cup of tea. The other Cardinal I looked at didn't have it).

    Physically, it's a lot beefier than my Willson - holding it reminds me more of a Besson Prestige. The third valve tubing sits a little farther away from the horn, so I have to spread my hand a little more, and the whole horn feels "wider" than my Willson if that makes sense. Not necessarily a good or bad thing, just different. Someone with smaller arms/hands than me would probably find it uncomfortable. And the position of the main slide water key is something I'll have to get used to. My horn also has a lexan/plexiglass shirt guard, which has a really durable/non-chintzy feel.

    Sound: Huge. Open. The horn sings. I took the risk of playing an Indianapolis Brass Choir concert on this horn the day after receiving it, and it filled the space with ease. I'm still getting used to how freely it blows and compared to my Willson, so my guess is the more I play it the more I'll love it.

    Response and note slotting is a breeze. I found myself almost overshooting lip slurs and high notes just because I'm so used to having to exert more effort than this horn obviously requires.

    Valves are nice and heavy with easy action and comfortable, concave finger buttons. The fourth valve has a heavy bottom cap.

    I'm still exploring mouthpiece options. For my Willson, the Giddings Danny Helseth solo model was a perfect fit for me, so that's what I'm currently using, but who knows?

    I'll post more impressions on the horn (like intonation) as we grow more acquainted (I haven't even had it a week yet), but just based on the short time I've spent with it, I don't think I'll ever be needing another euphonium. I can also post more detail photos if anyone wants to see something specific on the horn, as well as answer any questions anyone might have!

    A NOTE ABOUT OBTAINING THESE HORNS IN THE STATES (since that's probably a big thing people are wondering about!) - Joe Johnson of the Salvation Army in Altanta, GA is apparently the sole(?) US Geneva retailer. He was extremely nice and easy to do business with. He doesn't show at conferences because he runs a shop that sells other brands as well, and he doesn't feel right "competing" for sales with his own suppliers at a conference. I can certainly supply his email for anyone interested.

    -Sean

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    Sean Kissane
    Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
    Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
    Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band
  • ChristianeSparkle
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2018
    • 366

    #2
    Thank you for the review! The horn looks stunning!
    "Never over complicate things. Accept "bad" days. Always enjoy yourself when playing, love the sound we can make on our instruments (because that's why we all started playing the Euph)"

    Euph: Yamaha 642II Neo - 千歌音
    Mouthpiece: K&G 4D, Denis Wick 5AL

    https://soundcloud.com/ashsparkle_chika
    https://www.youtube.com/user/AshTSparkle/

    Comment

    • RickF
      Moderator
      • Jan 2006
      • 3869

      #3
      Boy, "a stunning horn to look at" is correct! Thanks for the review. Looking forward to intonation report as well. Congratulations.
      Rick Floyd
      Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc

      "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
      Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches

      El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
      The Cowboys (John Williams, arr. James Curnow)
      Festive Overture(Dmitri Shostakovich)
      ​

      Comment

      • ghmerrill
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 2382

        #4
        I like the attack eagle. Is it diving on a Wyvern?
        Gary Merrill
        Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
        Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
        Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
        1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
        Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
        1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

        Comment

        • Snorlax
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2007
          • 1003

          #5
          ...and he sounds great on it; I know this from sitting next to him in various ensembles.
          Jim Williams N9EJR (love 10 meter CW)
          Formerly Principal Euphonium in a whole
          bunch of groups, now just a schlub.
          Shires Q41, Yamaha 321, 621 Baritone
          Wick 4AL, Wessex 4Y, or whatever I grab.
          Conn 50H trombone, Blue P-bone
          www.soundcloud.com/jweuph

          Comment

          • John Morgan
            Moderator
            • Apr 2014
            • 1884

            #6
            Beautiful horn! Congratulations. Will be interested in more playback analysis, intonation, projection, etc. Really nice looking. I like the engraving, as I have that on mine. Enjoy it forever!
            John Morgan
            The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
            Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
            1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
            Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
            Year Round Except Summer:
            Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
            KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
            Summer Only:
            Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
            Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

            Comment

            • TheJH
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2014
              • 339

              #7
              How is the angle of the 4th valve? is it similar to your Willson? Or is it more horizontal? That was one of the main gripes I had when I tested a Geneva a couple of years ago.
              Euphoniums
              2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
              1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
              Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
              Baritone
              1975 Besson New Standard
              Mouthpiece: Courtois 10

              Comment

              • spkissane
                Senior Member
                • Jul 2011
                • 226

                #8
                The angle is definitely a little more horizontal than the Willson 4th valve. I don't have any problems ergonomically, but like I said before, someone with a smaller hand than me probably would. I feel like the overall configuration of the horn lends itself to the way the 4th valve is positioned, if that makes sense. The Willson has a very "compact" feel, so I held it with the bottom bow somewhat "tucked" under my left arm. I think the sharper-angled 4th valve lent itself to that. The width of the Geneva is making me hold the horn more in front of my body, so the more horizontal valve feels more natural to me.

                I hope any of that stream-of-consciousness explanation made sense. :|

                Semi-related aside - I remember seeing Gail Robertson demonstrate on her Willson 2950 that her hands are so small she can't reach the 4th valve and the tuning trigger at the same time. She'd probably hate holding the Geneva.

                Gary - The engraving is all eagles of varying size. One huge one in the middle and two smaller ones above and below it.
                Sean Kissane
                Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
                Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
                Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

                Comment

                • TheJH
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2014
                  • 339

                  #9
                  That made a lot of sense from my experiences with my own Willson, thank you
                  Euphoniums
                  2008 Willson 2960TA Celebration
                  1979 Boosey & Hawkes Sovereign (Round Stamp)
                  Mouthpiece: Denis Wick SM4
                  Baritone
                  1975 Besson New Standard
                  Mouthpiece: Courtois 10

                  Comment

                  • JakeGuilbo
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2006
                    • 346

                    #10
                    Do you have any problems with vibrations coming from the horn? I had the same horn for a few months earlier in 2018 and ended up having to send it back because my tech could not solve the vibration generated either from the trigger assembly or the bell ring. LOVED the horn otherwise though, was very sweet sound. I actually miss it
                    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
                    K&G 3.5D
                    ---------------------------------
                    Founder and Solo Euphonium
                    San Francisco Brass Band

                    Comment

                    • spkissane
                      Senior Member
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 226

                      #11
                      I haven't noticed any vibrations. I did hear from someone who owned a Geneva Symphony that their 4th valve lock buzzed and he had to get a washer machined onto the horn to fix it. I'll keep an eye (or ear) out for it over the coming months.
                      Sean Kissane
                      Low Brass Specialist, Paige's Music
                      Principal Euphonium, Indianapolis Brass Choir
                      Principal Euphonium, Crossroads Brass Band

                      Comment

                      • JakeGuilbo
                        Senior Member
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 346

                        #12
                        The three Geneva I played on (two Cardinal and one Symphony) all had this weird buzzing. You couldn't hear it from the audience or in a loud room but I could hear it and it drove me crazy. I miss the sound of that Cardinal though, such a sweet, sweet singing sound.
                        Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
                        K&G 3.5D
                        ---------------------------------
                        Founder and Solo Euphonium
                        San Francisco Brass Band

                        Comment

                        • superted
                          Member
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 119

                          #13
                          My Symphony had a buzz. I think it was the tuning slide itself. I was never able to get rid of it.
                          Ted

                          Besson Prestige BE2052-8G-0 Euphonium
                          Besson Sovereign 956 Baritone

                          Comment

                          • franz
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2015
                            • 392

                            #14
                            Originally posted by superted View Post
                            My Symphony had a buzz. I think it was the tuning slide itself. I was never able to get rid of it.
                            Last year there was a buzz on my Besson 2052: the threaded ring of the trigger's rod had loosened up and, on certain frequencies, produced an annoying buzz. I solved by putting very viscous silicone grease inside the ring.
                            Last edited by franz; 02-21-2019, 11:09 AM.
                            2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

                            Comment

                            • JakeGuilbo
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 346

                              #15
                              I took the Cardinal I had to my tech in Sacramento and they could not figure out where the buzz was coming from, including trying all types of grease, glue and locktite they could try. They even rebuilt the trigger assembly. They are both Euphonium players (Willson) and could not always duplicate the buzz themselves. At one point there was a leak where the 4th valve connects to the tuning slide but they soldered the leak and the buzz remained. Then the trigger spring exploded and I had enough at that point. All this happened between February and May last year. I will absolutely say though that Joe Johnson was awesome to deal with and made every accommodation to help me, even having Geneva build a new horn for me, which did not fix the problem. At any rate I moved back to Adams and an E3 but I do miss the sound and look of that Cardinal.
                              Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
                              K&G 3.5D
                              ---------------------------------
                              Founder and Solo Euphonium
                              San Francisco Brass Band

                              Comment

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