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Thread: Baritone or Tenor Horn ??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
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    Bor i Norge , Valdres, Etnedal
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    5

    Baritone or Tenor Horn ??

    Hello dear Euph players, I am one Euph. amateur plays in a brass band in Norway. Have bought an instrument which to me looks like a tenor horn. But ask yourselves in the forum here. It is a used Boosey and Hawkes Regent II from about 1982 as far as I can tell. But is it a Baritone or a Tenorhorn ??

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    Her er en video av David Werden som spiller på et liknende instrument https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSqU5aTMN38
    Last edited by davewerden; 10-14-2023 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Reformatted appearance

  2. #2
    I would call it a baritone horn, but tenorhorn is often used to indicate the same instrument. The tubing stays small for a large part of the instrument, and the flare into the bell is gentle. I'm guessing it would sound more-or-less like the instrument I play in the video you linked (but mine has a larger bell, which softens the tone a bit).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Netherlands
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    338
    Technically a baritone, often plays parts named 'tenorhorn' in older European parts.

    But definitely a baritone horn.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Bor i Norge , Valdres, Etnedal
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    David, thank you very much for clarifying which instrument this is. Incredibly beautiful and soft tones from the baritone you play on in the video . I have taken up a hobby as a pensioner and buy, collect used instruments, fix them up with a service and a proper polish, some I resell but enjoy playing them in the brass band . Ove

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Valley City, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    1,314
    I know there are some slight differences…but I forget what they are.

    Someone told me a while back they Thomann Music makes the correct distinction on their website… but I can’t immediately identify what those differences are.
    Groups
    Valley City Community Band
    Valley City State University Concert Band
    2024 North Dakota Intercollegiate Band (you're never too old!)


    Larry Herzog Jr.

    All things EUPHONIUM! Guilded server

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Location
    Bor i Norge , Valdres, Etnedal
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    5
    Hi reading on Thomann s side and this is what they mean : But what does this mean?
    The bore's defining characteristic is the resonance tube. The tenor horn's bore measures about 13.0 mm to 13.9 mm at the mechanism. 13 mm is called a narrow bore, 13.9mm a wide bore. In comparison, the most narrow baritone bore is 14.7 mm and it goes all the way to 16 mm. This difference results in a different timbre. The baritone sounds softer, and fuller in the lower ranges than the tenor. There is also a greater variety of intonation, which is further enhanced by the baritone's fourth valve, which increases the playable scale downwards. https://www.thomann.de/gb/onlineexpe...ifference.html So im pleased with the answer , i will check on the instruments wich measure they have . Wish you a beautiful week and play with the heart

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    2,369
    The euphonium/baritone/tenorhorn terminology can be maddening -- especially as used by people who don't play any of those. I once had an unreasonably intense (also somewhat irrational) conversation with a very experienced local brass repair technician who insisted that my 4-valve Amati oval euphonium was a TENORhorn, and became irate at the thought of referring to it as anything else.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  8. #8
    This is why tenor horn is such a misnomer. The instrumental part they play is usually the ALTO part. Totally makes sense why in SA music nomenclature, they're called ALTO HORNS. The Baritone IMHO is more of a true TENOR horn.

    That's my opinion.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,369
    So then what would be the "true" baritone horn? The F tuba? Something doesn't work out along that line of thought. My understanding has always been that the voicing categories go pretty much like this:

    BBb & CC tubas: contrabass
    F & Eb tubas (probably French C tuba as well): bass
    Bb baritone/euphoniums: baritone
    ??????? (small bore Bb but same fundamental as baritone, and only 3 valves!?) : tenor
    Eb alto horn: alto
    Flugelhorn (take your pick on pitch, I suppose): soprano

    I have, of course, left out the lovely Wagner tuben (which we can regard as deviant), and likewise the quasi-proto-not really-tuba ophecleides. I have also avoided the added complication of considering things roughly isomorphic to euphoniums as "tenor tubas."

    Oh, what a tangled web we weave when we attempt to classify instruments simultaneously by pitch, range, and tone quality.

    I will close with a passing reference to Stauffer's "A Treatise on the Tuba" -- but only because so few people have a copy of this, or even access to a copy of it.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  10. #10
    I looked at a brass band setting as follows..

    SOPRANO - Cornets, Eb Soprano, Solo Cornets, 1st Cornet (2nd cornets would more than likely fall on the alto line but could also double here),
    ALTO - Solo and 1st Horn, 2nd Cornets, Flugelhorn
    TENOR - 1 and 2nd Baritone, 2nd horn, 1st and 2nd Trombone
    BASS - Bass Trombone, Eb Bass, BBb Bass

    I purposely left off the Euphonium part. I reached out to a composer friend of mine to help give the part a proper placement.

    If you use this arrangement there is almost equal number of players per part.



    In the traditional CAROLER'S FAVORITE and a lot of SA pieces, the Euph was always a Fifth part optional..
    Last edited by anadmai; 10-16-2023 at 01:35 PM.
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    Meet the Family
    Junior - Euphonium - 1906 - Henry Distin Mfg.
    Hastings - Trombone - 1952 - Boosey and Hawkes
    Bramwell - Euphonium - 1988 - Besson/Boosey and Hawkes (BE967)
    Margaret - Baritone - 2015 - Sterling1050HS
    Albert - Eb Bass - 2023 - Dillon 981S


    New York Staff Band - 2nd Baritone - 1991-1994
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