Draining Slides

[Clayton M.]

Hi all,

I have noticed that I have made a habit of pulling the slides out to drain the spit/condensation, even when the slide has a water key. I feel like I don’t clear it as well, otherwise. Is this a bad habit? The other euph player in my community band only pulls slides that don’t have the water key.

What do you do? What is recommended?

[daruby]

I'm a "slide puller" too. Been playing for 58 years. Haven't destroyed any horns yet.

[RickF]

I normally only pull my 2nd and 4th slide that don't have water keys. I used to pull my 1st slide to empty water but heard that over doing it could prematurely wear out the legs of the slide. Usually just tipping my horn some to the right, opening the key, and lightly blowing air to break surface tension. I said 'lightly blow' cause that's all that's really needed usually. We have a trumpet player who blows so hard to clear water the audience can hear it at times.

[davewerden]

I use my water keys, except maybe at the end of a practice session when I'll dump slides (only if I'm feeling ambitious).

If I empty a slide with the water key and immediately pull it and dump it, I get just a bit of extra moisture out. That's assuming I have the right angle when I use the key, so the water can find the hole. I figure that little bit of water is no more than I'll have after 15 seconds of playing anyway.

I don't worry about wearing out the slides, except for 2nd. Mostly I use the water keys because:
- it is quicker
- it is quieter (unless you are really careful, but that would take a bit longer)
- it is less obvious to the audience. On a couple occasions (when I was only dumping the 2nd slide) I heard that audience members found it gross.

[TheJH]

I mostly pull the slides out, but only the 2nd valve slide at all times because it fills up quite rapidly. 3rd valve slide depending on if I have enough time and on which instrument (My Sovereign doesn't have a 3rd valve slide water key, my Willson does). First valve slide only when I have a lot of time, otherwise just using the water key. My 4th valve slide collects close to no water so I'm never too worried about that. Main tuning slide is mainly the water key.

[John Morgan]

Pretty much what Dave does. Sometimes if I just lean my horn a little for the right angle and open the 1st valve key, I don't get much, then if I pull the slide I get more. I think the hole just sort of stops up or doesn't flow out easily sometimes without blowing a little (as Rick says to relieve the surface tension). The slides and their amount of "emptying attention" on my horn from most to least would be main and 2nd valve about a tie for most, then 1st valve, 3rd valve and 4th valve. I never empty the 3rd valve compensating slide unless I am just extremely bored (once I did get a drop out). Ditto with the 1st valve compensating slide. But I do pull the 1st valve compensating slide once in a while to check valve alignment. I do tend to pull most of the slides out after a rehearsal (except rarely the 3rd valve slide).

Thought/question for the day: On virtually ALL of the euphoniums I have owned, the 2nd valve slide fills faster and more than the other valves, usually by multiple amounts. Why would the 2nd valve slide fill more than the others?

[davewerden]

The 2nd slide was always the water collector on my compensating horns...until I got my E3. For some reason I don't get that much for #2 anymore. I still empty it when I do the others and get a few drops from 2, but I probably could ignore it for quite a while if I wanted to. No clue what has changed! Certainly the tubing and port runs in my horn are the same as John's E3.

However, in the past I had always figured that 2 collected water because it is used so often. In addition, I think the very tight curve at the bottom, where the water collects, means it will gurgle sooner that if the same amount of water sat in the 1st valve slide.

[djwpe]

Thought/question for the day: On virtually ALL of the euphoniums I have owned, the 2nd valve slide fills faster and more than the other valves, usually by multiple amounts. Why would the 2nd valve slide fill more than the others?

I suspect it has to do with the radius of the crook, being tighter on the 2nd valve, less water will cause more gurgling than on the first valve.

Interestingly, the Miraphone 5050 fills the 2nd valve slide slower than other horns that I’ve played.

Don

[John Morgan]

My E3 2nd valve slide does in fact not fill quite as fast as other horns, but I am using the Wessex at the moment, and it really fills fast, as have most of my others. Not sure about the gurgling thing and the short slide being the culprit, I seem to clearly have "more" moisture coming out of most 2nd valve slides. And I also remember that my M5050 Miraphone wasn't so fast to fill with the 2nd valve slide, same as Don above. So, restating everything, all my horns (10-15) have experienced faster filling with the 2nd valve slide than the other valve slides, except perhaps my Miraphone M5050 and Adams E3. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Until tomorrow...

[Clayton M.]

Thanks for the input. I was worried I was forming a bad habit. It seems like there wouldn’t be any reason not to continue except for being discreet during a performance.

To add to the current conversation: the main tuning slide collects quite a bit more than any other slides for me. During a rehearsal, I tend to empty the tuning slide, the 1st valve, and the 2nd valve. (In that order, and in that order of frequency) I think the amount of condensation forming has a lot to do with the rehearsal space being air conditioned, while my horn does not enjoy that normally.

[RickF]

After practicing today I notice that I do sometimes pull the 1st slide. It's easier due to my confined practice area.

Emptying a slide while playing a solo in front of the band can be tricky. I don't solo in front of the band very often anymore but I remember Fred Dart suggesting to me, "...if you have enough time during the rest, turn to face the band while they're playing and dump the water – hoping not to hit your shoes".

[franz]

I drain the condensation from my Besson 2052 from the key on the main slide, while in the others I prefer to empty extracting them. On the baritone, which requires more frequent emptying, I do it from the keys, except on the second slide that has no a key. Interesting is a video of Misa Mead where she plays " Fantasia di concerto" where, in a short pause, she discharges the condensation from the main slide unlatching and re-hooking the trigger rod of her Besson Sovreign. (6:35)

[davewerden]

Interesting is a video of Misa Mead where she plays " Fantasia di concerto" where, in a short pause, she discharges the condensation from the main slide unlatching and re-hooking the trigger rod of her Besson Sovreign. (6:35)

Interesting indeed! I wonder if her main water key had a problem (like a broken spring so it had to be "tied" shut). It was actually a great show of dexterity!

[franz]

I have a question to ask: do the water keys influence the sound of the horn? I recently saw, I don't remember where, an euphonium player who replaced, on his Adams, the original slides with others without any water key: he claimed to be able to feel the difference.

[davewerden]

I have a question to ask: do the water keys influence the sound of the horn? I recently saw, I don't remember where, an euphonium player who replaced, on his Adams, the original slides with others without any water key: he claimed to be able to feel the difference.

In theory it would matter. I conventional water key has a hole in the slide with a little tube attached, the end of which is sealed by the water key's pad. That's a pothole in the passageway. On my Adams I had all the water keys replaced with Amado keys, with equates to a pothole that was patched. There is still a little dip in the road, but it is very slight. I have a dual set of slides, the other set having conventional water keys. I really can't say I feel a difference, but I can't say I don't either. If there is a difference it's very subtle. But subtle differences here and there can add up. Mostly I just think they look cleaner! I think they are also a bit quicker to empty because of the way I have mine oriented, but that is also a very small thing.