Discussion of Oil and Grease

[lzajmom]

Well you all have very gently and graciously persuaded me to go with the Dolce. After plenty of time spent today on their site, Facebook page, and YouTube, and having also had more time to process the phone calls I had with MB earlier in the week, the decision is pretty clear.

I promised the hubby I'd wait at least one week before purchasing to ensure time to think, pray, and change my mind if needed. But, unless something changes, I'll order next week and look forward to sharing my impressions with you all upon its arrival!

I decided that maintenance or not, I just can't visually handle the lacquer, so I'll go ahead and get the silver. But the gold accents seem to be little more than cosmetic, and more than one reviewer indicated that the gold easily wore off. So I'll save $100 by sticking with the classic look.

I also think I'll stick with the original mouthpiece for now. While I imagine I'll upgrade later, I'll be happy to save that added cost now in order to help me afford the better instrument. I bet a mouthpiece would fit inside a Christmas stocking quite nicely!

My local music store told me today that most people are fine with generic valve oil, but that "older, pickier" people prefer Hetman. I told her I'm old and picky, and having remembered the recommendations here for the same, that decision was made easily enough.

I remembered I have lanolin leftover from my student days. Think that's still ok to use on the slides, or does it expire? If you really wanna go there (I don't assume that you do, but apparently I do), I also have lanolin leftover from my breastfeeding days (years) that is much fresher and would presumably work nicely. I don't intend to be using it for its intended purpose anytime soon.

I'll look at the above recommendations for brushes soon. I'm thankful to have my options reduced to two, so your time is much appreciated.

THANK YOU all so much for contributing your experience and informed opinions to my decision! I'm so excited that this is finally happening after all these years!!!

Kimberly

[lzajmom]

Well you all have very gently and graciously persuaded me to go with the Dolce. After plenty of time spent today on their site, Facebook page, and YouTube, and having also had more time to process the phone calls I had with MB earlier in the week, the decision is pretty clear.

I promised the hubby I'd wait at least one week before purchasing to ensure time to think, pray, and change my mind if needed. But, unless something changes, I'll order next week and look forward to sharing my impressions with you all upon its arrival!

I decided that maintenance or not, I just can't visually handle the lacquer, so I'll go ahead and get the silver. But the gold accents seem to be little more than cosmetic, and more than one reviewer indicated that the gold easily wore off. So I'll save $100 by sticking with the classic look.

I also think I'll stick with the original mouthpiece for now. While I imagine I'll upgrade later, I'll be happy to save that added cost now in order to help me afford the better instrument. I bet a mouthpiece would fit inside a Christmas stocking quite nicely!

My local music store told me today that most people are fine with generic valve oil, but that "older, pickier" people prefer Hetman. I told her I'm old and picky, and having remembered the recommendations here for the same, that decision was made easily enough.

I remembered I have lanolin leftover from my student days. Think that's still ok to use on the slides, or does it expire? If you really wanna go there (I don't assume that you do, but apparently I do), I also have lanolin leftover from my breastfeeding days (years) that is much fresher and would presumably work nicely. I don't intend to be using it for its intended purpose anytime soon.

I'll look at the above recommendations for brushes soon. I'm thankful to have my options reduced to two, so your time is much appreciated.

THANK YOU all so much for contributing your experience and informed opinions to my decision! I'm so excited that this is finally happening after all these years!!!

[davewerden]

I think you'll enjoy the Wessex! Hetman is good oil, and that is what I'm currently using. Be aware that it comes in different thicknesses. You might start with #1, which is the thinnest.

However, I prefer to break a horn in with conventional oil, on the theory that it will dissolve the residue that might remain in the horn for a few weeks. In any case, you should clean and oil the valves daily for a couple weeks, then gradually do so less frequently.

Lanolin can start to smell pretty bad after a while, but that's about all I know. I'm using Hetman slide grease and I find it smells a lot like lanolin! But you might try good-old standard slide grease from your music store, too. One of my slides doesn't like the Hetman grease - the rest are fine with it. So I use Bach grease on that one and it works much better.

FWIW.

[lzajmom]

Be aware that it comes in different thicknesses. You might start with #1, which is the thinnest.

Thanks! I didn't know anything about that.

However, I prefer to break a horn in with conventional oil

Sorry I'm ignorant on this... Is Hetman "conventional"?

[davewerden]

Hetman is considered a synthetic. Try Blue Juice for the breaking-in period.

[lzajmom]

Hetman is considered a synthetic. Try Blue Juice for the breaking-in period.

Got it. Thanks so much!!

[RickF]

Another vote for Blue Juice. It lubricates well AND helps keep the valves cleaner. The only complaint I hear is it has a stronger odor. I don’t notice that anymore. Matt of Dillon Music in NJ was quoted as saying, “Use Blue Juice. You’ll thank me later”.

[TheJH]

For slide grease I just use normal Vaseline. Works perfectly, never had problems with it.

[ghmerrill]

My local music store told me today that most people are fine with generic valve oil, but that "older, pickier" people prefer Hetman. I told her I'm.

Based on this comment, I would not put a lot of weight on advice from the music store; though it appears to be harmless. You'll have to work through trying a couple dozen different valve oils like the rest of us have before you find your favorite.

I remembered I have anhydrous lanolin leftover from my student days.

I used to use lanolin (for over a decade) as slide lube and liked it a lot. I still have most of the jar I bought from some drug store 25 years ago, but some of it has hardened up. I don't know why I still have that jar around.

But there are better things today. I now use DOW-Corning (silicone) high vacuum grease, but it's pricey and you have to buy a fairly large tube. Since I use it for other things, that's not a problem for me.

However, what I tend to recommend now is a very similar (silicone) grease that's easily available in the plumbing departments (okay, stop giggling now) of Lowes and Home Depot. It's often called "faucet grease", and one common brand is Danco (here on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Danco-80360-W...faucet+grease; here at Lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Danco-Grease/1092167). You can also often get it at Walmart.

The silicone grease has the advantage that it does not "wash off" as even lanolin will do over time, and does not harden. One application lasts a LONG time. The only caveat is that you must use VERY LITTLE of it -- partly because you don't need much of it, and partly because you don't want a glob of it migrating to your valves. Just apply a bit to the tuning slide tube, rub it all over, then kind of wipe it off with your hand. I think most contemporary commercial tuning slide lubricants nowadays contain silicone as one of the major ingredients. They just also contain other useless stuff and charge more for it.

[ghmerrill]

Blue Juice is very popular among the non-synthetic oil crowd (who oddly often seem to otherwise want to avoid the use of petrochemical products, but I digress). A lot of people really like it. I use it (the free bottle that came with one of my instruments) as a thin oil lubricant for tools, small mechanisms, and some firearms. But I can't use it on my instruments because I find the smell of it to be overpowering and nauseating. Also, I much prefer synthetics because I find that they last longer and have no odor or taste associated with them. We all have our preferences.

[guidocorona]

Hello Gary, I looked up Dow-Corning High Vacuum Grease on Amazon.... Turns out it is available in packages as small as 0.5 ounces for $4.95 plus shipping, in addition to 1 ounce, 2 ounces, and 5 ounces for example:

https://www.amazon.com/Dow-Corning-H...re-bullets-btf

My concern is the almost total insolubility of the material.... How do you remove it completely from your hands after applying it to eupho slides? And is there any toxicity to it?

Saluti, Guido

[djwpe]

Another vote for Blue Juice. It lubricates well AND helps keep the valves cleaner. The only complaint I hear is it has a stronger odor. I don’t notice that anymore. Matt of Dillon Music in NJ was quoted as saying, “Use Blue Juice. You’ll thank me later”.

i agree 100% with Rick on this, that Blue Juice is all the lubricant you need. The petroleum oil kills the bacteria that otherwise feed on synthetic oil and result in the “green slime” biofilm that tends to grow in horns lubricated with Hetman’s.

The other thing I would suggest and Blue Juice allows you to do without guilt is to “use lots” of oil, rather than buying very expensive oil and conserving it. This type of low force sliding contact needs lots of lubrication of some kind. Buy the “studio’ size bottles and don’t skimp.

Don

[ghmerrill]

My concern is the almost total insolubility of the material.... How do you remove it completely from your hands after applying it to eupho slides? And is there any toxicity to it?

It appears to be less toxic than tomato juice:

https://aspen.conncoll.edu/media/web...uum_Grease.pdf

I just wipe my hands on paper towels, but if you're concerned you could always use plastic or latex gloves.

[ghmerrill]

The petroleum oil kills the bacteria that otherwise feed on synthetic oil and result in the “green slime” biofilm that tends to grow in horns lubricated with Hetman’s.

So it's all you Blue Juice users who are DESTROYING OUR PLANETARY ECOSYSTEM? Oops, another digression. Sorry.

But exactly what strains of bacteria in our instruments feed on the synthetic oils that we're all using? I've sure never noticed any slime from using a variety of synthetic oils.

I don't use Hetman's -- way too many horror stories about various slimes with it. But don't generalize from Hetman's to "synthetic oil". And I don't recall its being established that the slime produced with/by Hetman's involves bacterial action. References? (Not being snotty about this. Just really curious if this has been determined since we've been speculating about the cause here for several years.) A lot of people absolutely love Hetman's and have no problems with it.

The other thing I would suggest and Blue Juice allows you to do without guilt is to “use lots” of oil, rather than buying very expensive oil and conserving it. This type of low force sliding contact needs lots of lubrication of some kind. Buy the “studio’ size bottles and don’t skimp.

Well, I feel that I'm striking a small blow on behalf of the endangered planetary bacteria. Also, I just buy expensive oil and then don't conserve it -- and find myself curiously bereft of guilt. Life's too short. Besides, you don't actually have to conserve it, since it lasts so much longer in application. Look at the revolution that synthetic lubricants have yielded for trombone slide lubrication -- where I suspect that pretty much nobody uses anything else any longer (if you can even get non-synthetic trombone slide lubricants).

If you really want to save money, do what a bunch of the old tuba guys do: get ultrapure lamp oil (kerosene) by the quart and use it on your valves every 15 minutes or so. It is in fact an excellent light lubricant, entirely "natural" (well, modulo all that refining), very inexpensive ($8/quart or less), slightly stinky (but nothing like Blue Juice ), washes off fast, and doesn't give a particularly attractive flavor to your instrument. But some people really dig it.

[lzajmom]

So can we generally say, the "best," subjectively and depending on whether you want to go synthetic or natural, are probably Hetman or Blue Juice?

Would there be any issue with mixing different kinds? (I'm picturing combining regular unleaded and premium in your gas tank.) I assume no with eyebrows raised at the ignorance of the question, but I do want to be sure.

So I busted out the old anhydrous lanolin today to check it. It smells like youth and high emotion, but not rancid like I expected. It hasn't hardened. Any reason not to use what I have?