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Thread: Euphonium Shank Sizes

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    I wouldn't expect any current or recent production instruments to have receivers of those sizes.
    I think they stopped doing this now, but as recent as a few years ago Conn 88H trombones were shipping with several removable leadpipes, and one of them had a remington taper receiver in it.
    --
    Barry

  2. Quote Originally Posted by iiipopes View Post
    I must disagree. The Remington taper is a slightly different angle than the "medium" shank size of, for example, the Besson/B&H Euph receivers prior to the mid '70's.
    iiipopes. I knew that the CONN 24I/25I were not the same as the 88H Remington shank. So I will agree it is not Remington. Everything else that I said is true.

    A Euro medium shank will bottom out and not engage in the receiver without being shaved. If 1/4" or so is removed, it will work nicely. The Conn tenor shank adapter that came with the Connstellation worked nicely in the Besson New Standard, but the Besson adapter that came with the older medium shank New Standards would wobble in the Conn. I have played with this adaptation (pun intended) since 1965 when I played my first Connstellation (still have one).
    Sterling Virtuoso 1052HS & Adams E3 Prototype 0.70 Top Sprung valves
    Sterling Virtuoso 1050HS baritone & Conn 24I/25I euphonium
    New England Brass Band/Metropolitan Wind Symphony
    Winchendon Winds/Townsend Military Band

  3. #13
    I just deleted a post because it was getting more pointed than I'm comfortable with. Let's all be respectful, and avoid sarcasm. Thanks!
    Last edited by davewerden; 01-21-2019 at 06:14 PM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  4. Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Euphonium mouthpieces come in 3 sizes. There is the small, tenor-trombone-size shank, which fits a Yamaha 321 and most of the old American baritone/euphonium instruments. The middle size, which is called the Euro shank, fits the old Bessons (pre 1974) and most Willsons. And the large, bass-trombone-size shank fits most modern euphoniums.

    Speaking a little roughly, if you measure the small end of the mouthpiece, you'll find this:

    Small, tenor trombone-size shank: 7/16" or 11mm
    Large, bass trombone-size shank: 1/2" or 12mm

    The medium (European) shank measures about halfway between the other 2, or 15/32" or 11.5mm

    I checked with a AAA battery, and the diameter is very close to the end of the small shank mouthpiece. The AAA battery ALMOST fits inside the end of the large shank.
    The length of the shank of a mouthpiece can vary within a given taper size. Also, some mouthpieces have had the end shortened for various reasons (damage, "gap" adjustment etc.) This matters when measuring the end of the shank to determine mouthpiece size because the longer the shank, the smaller the diameter at the end and obviously the shorter the shank, the wider the end diameter due to it being tapered.

    What actually matters is the inside diameter of the receiver which the mouthpiece shank goes into.
    Kelly Mouthpieces has a nice chart giving these dimensions:

    https://www.kellymouthpieces.com/shanks/index.asp

    After reading some of the discussions on mouthpiece to lead-pipe "gap" as well as other threads on poorly fitting shanks, I think the problem some people are encountering is the end of the mouthpiece shank bottoming out against the lead-pipe inside the receiver such that the taper of the shank does not quite fully seat into the taper of the receiver. Filing off a bit of the end of the shank would fix this. Note that unlike an adjustable gap receiver, this is simply allowing the mouthpiece to fully seat into the receiver. An adjustable gap allows for tuning of the tubing prior to the valve section. Most people will never encounter a problem in this. But, in the world of repair of student/school instruments, the receiver and lead-pipes can take a beating in the field and may need to be rebuilt/replaced. The slight variations in mouthpiece shank length and tuning problems can become evident if a receiver is set too far in or out when it is replaced.
    Weril H980 euph
    Besson 4v comp euph 314xxx
    Besson 3v comp euph 455xxx
    King 3v bari. 20xxx
    King 4v double-bell euph 50xxx
    Conn 5v double-bell euph 355xxx
    Buescher 3+1 double-bell euph 285xxx
    Olds bell-front 3v bari
    Holton alto horn
    Holton 3v tuba
    Belleville Helicon
    Some of the performances of the Mid-Shore Community Band:
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...ty%20band&sm=3

  5. #15
    Since this has been revived, I have a weird question.

    I tried a King 2280 years ago and even though it's marked as a "large shank" receiver, none of my mouthpieces seemed to fit correctly. It wasn't completely incorrect, but just didn't "fit" and snug into place. I used Schilke and Wick mp's, but I don't think I tried a large shank Bach. Then more recently I tried a Yamaha Bass Trombone and had the same issue. This one came with a Schilke 59 that I tried in my Euph and noticed it stuck out farther than in the Bass Trombone.

    Is there a specific "Bass Trombone" shank out there, different from a Large Shank?

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Terre Haute, IN
    Posts
    3
    Is there a shank size for British style baritone that is the diameter of a trumpet mouthpiece? I picked up an old Pierre Sartel horn that turned out to be in Bb (high pitch) with a trumpet mouthpiece fitting in it.
    Joe Ervin

    MM Tuba Compensating Euphonium
    Wessex 'Michigan' BBb Tuba
    JP Sterling JP377S Eb Tuba
    Schiller Bass Trombone

    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    Zionsville Concert Band
    Indianapolis Municipal Band
    Crossroads Brass Band

    I like big bells and I cannot lie...

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jervin View Post
    Is there a shank size for British style baritone that is the diameter of a trumpet mouthpiece? I picked up an old Pierre Sartel horn that turned out to be in Bb (high pitch) with a trumpet mouthpiece fitting in it.
    I had a similar instrument a few decades ago. It was a Champion Silver Piston. I THINK this was a Bb tenor horn, and the mouthpiece that came with (not sure if it was original equipment) it had a trumpet size shank and a cup in between a trumpet and euphonium size.

    I sanded down a tenor trombone mouthpiece enough that it fit in a quarter inch or so and used it like a baritone.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  8. #18
    19th and early 20th century all bets are off as far as shank sizes, there are so many variations. I have a few Bb tenor horns that have much smaller receivers than modern small shank.

    Champion Silver Piston I believe was sold by Lyon & Healy and manufactured by Bohland and Fuchs in what is now Czech Republic.

    I don't know too much about Pierre Sartel, this page suggests it was a fictitious name for Bohland and Fuchs instruments sold by a music store in Cleveland, but the NMM web site shows a few from their collection and says made in Paris... so... who knows.

    http://www.brasshistory.net/McMillin%20History.pdf


    My approach for mouthpieces for instruments like these is to find original mouthpieces - go to music stores and ask to look at all their used mouthpieces. Once in a while their big tubs of used mouthpieces will have some of these antiques that will fit. These instruments tend to play better with period mouthpieces, too - intonation just works better.
    --
    Barry

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Terre Haute, IN
    Posts
    3
    Thank you Dave and Barry for the information! I'll see if I can find an old timey mouthpiece to fit it and in the meantime try fitting a small shank trombone mouthpiece for now.

    Joe
    Joe Ervin

    MM Tuba Compensating Euphonium
    Wessex 'Michigan' BBb Tuba
    JP Sterling JP377S Eb Tuba
    Schiller Bass Trombone

    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    Zionsville Concert Band
    Indianapolis Municipal Band
    Crossroads Brass Band

    I like big bells and I cannot lie...

  10. Sounds like a place to revisit one of my old questions.
    In my collection is a 1924 Buescher Double Bell.
    Mouthpiece receiver appears to be in good shape and unmodified.
    It appears to need something slightly larger than a small shank / tenor mouthpiece, but slightly smaller than my Denis Wick medium shanks.
    Bach small shank goes in too far and the Denis Wick medium shank not far enough.
    Anybody got some experience with vintage Buescher Euphs?
    Eventually will get around to a custom adapter.
    Thanks,
    Jim
    Jim Babbitt
    1960s 4 valve and 1971 3 valve Besson New Standards (Denis Wick 6BM) for regular playing
    1936 Conn 5 valve 30I Double Bell (Bach 6-1/2AL) General Purpose Back -Up
    1924 Buescher 5 valve (the Denis Wick is close) and 1940 Holton 5 valve (Bach 6-1/2AL) Double Bells for kicks.
    1860s OTS Saxhorn when history is required (the Denis Wick fits)

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