Scherzer euphoniums

[Buccin]

I am looking for information on older Scherzer euphoniums. I searched the net but did not find much. I know that Scherzer is known for their rotary trumpets. How are their low brass instruments?

I played one of their oval euphoniums (german, european type) very briefly. (I think it was a euphonium, rather than a baritone.) It had intonation problems, but I do not have experience with other oval horns to compare it with. I liked the way the notes slotted and it seemed very easy to play, which is very important if you playing at oktoberfest.

[highpitch]

Maybe take a look here:

http://www.euphoniumcollective.co.uk/neweuph.htm

DG

[Buccin]

That is a good resource. It had some great info on older horns. Unfortunately, I did not see anything on Scherzer.

I have tried looking for various terms including bariton (without the e), baritone, euphonim, and scherzer.

A handful of pics come up but very little written information or sound or video files.

[BDeisinger]

I own a B&S Bariton or baryton 2046 which is of course oval. A lot of fun to play and gets a lot of attention here in America. I normally use it in community bands which drives players crazy with the bell direction. I have used it as a solo instrument and been told sounds much like a French horn. Not much of a market for this horn in America and I overpaid for it, but I love it.

[Buccin]

Thanks for the info. These are fairly uncommon in the US, and thus any info is useful even if it is a different make. Scherzer and the b&s were both made in Markneukirchen. These are not Chinese stencils. However, I do wonder if these were lesser instruments that were made by another factory and then rebranded. Did this sort of thing happen, or am I imagining it?

My understanding in terms of price is that they are difficult to unload. So make sure that it is a keeper.

[bbocaner]

Scherzer would have been a high quality independent small workshop that got absorbed into the B&S/JA Musik (and eventually Buffet) empire. As you seem to know, they are mostly known for their trumpets, so a bariton would date from before they got bought by B&S and those duplicate products were discontinued. It is probably mostly handmade. I saw one of these in the past few years, but I can't remember where. Honestly, a modern miraphone, k&h, meinl weston, etc. is probably a better instrument as they seem to be making better linkages and have figured out some of the intonation snags in the past 20 years or so, but it's not likely to have been a cheap instrument when it was new.

[Buccin]

Thank you for the information bbocaner.

I tried the Scherzer again. The B flat on the second line of the bass clef was almost a half step FLAT. (This was totally unexpected, as I am used to B flats tending to be sharp.) All of the slides were fully in, so I could not push in to try to correct it. Moreover, the other notes in the b flat scale in that octave were somewhat close to being in tune. Maybe there is an alternate fingering. 4+2, 4+1? Maybe it is supposed to take a different mouthpiece.

[highpitch]

Perhaps your horn was made to low pitch, i.e. 432Hz=A (or so).

AKA 'Opratic Pitch'.

https://www.wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Cavanagh_440Hz.pdf

DG

[bbocaner]

4+1 would work as an alternate for second line Bb, but that'd be highly unusual for the 2nd partial to be so off like that. I think it's more likely that there's a leak or something similar that's throwing it off.

[Buccin]

The lower pitch is a good thought. It does seem quite low though, like a415 even with the slide all the way in.

I would have thought that a leak would raise the pitch, as it effectively shortens the length of the instrument. It certainly looks like it could have a leak.

It was suggested that some f tubas have flat first harmonics. It is part of the compromise of their timing.

I saw a YouTube video of a kid playing an oval baritone. I think he used 123 to try to get the b flat.

I wonder what it’s original mouthpiece was like? Could it have had some unusual short mouthpiece?

I may have one more go at playing it. I will bring my euroshank shilke 51d. I tried it with two ones that were lying around the shop. One was plastic coated and not that deep, which I was not used to. The other was more traditional.

[bbocaner]

Leaks can do unpredictable things.

Mouthpiece is a good thought, too - some of these older instruments are extremely sensitive to mouthpiece choice and can work much better with something closer to what they were designed to be used with.

If it's only the one note that's affected, I doubt it was designed to be used at significantly lower pitch. That would also be unusual for a 20th century instrument although some early 20th century instruments tuned slightly lower than 440.