LefreaQue Band sizes

[ghmerrill]

Magic Tone Beans are best used if kept in one's pocket or nearby in a Bag of Holding. However, despite this recommendation, reports from my vast customer base indicate that "the more you eat, the more you toot." Individual results vary and no empirical data is available.

The best practice concerning any sort of magic beans is definitely NOT to ingest them. I cite "Jack and the Beanstalk" and the copious related literature. Concerning empirical data, we in fact have almost 300 years of such reports, though primarily in the context of giant-related activity which makes it difficult to repeat today (owing to various regulatory constraints and concerns about cultural appropriation).

[ghmerrill]

Has anyone tested the LeFreque plates using audio spectrum analysis or other empirical measures? Have there been any blind or double-blind studies? It seems these might help remove the subjective nature and speculation involved in evaluating a product that may or may not have an impact on the vibration of the air column in the horn.

That surely would take all the fun out of it.

[mbrooke]

Has anyone tested the LeFreque plates using audio spectrum analysis or other empirical measures? Have there been any blind or double-blind studies? It seems these might help remove the subjective nature and speculation involved in evaluating a product that may or may not have an impact on the vibration of the air column in the horn.

I tend to suspect that the placebo effect is in play, but I can't prove it. In the meantime, I will continue to rely on long tones, as well as a pocket-full of Magic Tone Beans, which I hope to soon bring to market!

I measured both with and without the plates. There is consistently more NRG in some of the higher frequencies wit the plates. I have no idea how this relates to the perceived changes in sound. I have several people listen both with and without, and they all thought that the I sounded louder and had more "presence" of sound with the plates. I think Rick found something similar. I found that the plates seem to have more effect with brass mouthpieces than with stainless. Maybe the brass rolls off some of the higher frequencies and the plates allow it to pass to the horn? While these things seem like a marketing gimmick, they seem to do something. I remember reading in an article that the great french horn player Dennis Brain would wedge a piece of a matchstick across the opening of his main tuning slide. Also, our conductor is a bassoonist and she takes lessons from a well-known both bassoonist in the D.C. area. They both use the same model $30,000 bassoon. My conductor tried the plates and thought they didn't do anything, but her teach loves them.

Mike

Mike

[ghmerrill]

I can't even.

[Euphearted]

For the same principle applied to a different instrument and whatever insights can be gleaned from it, Google "fender dead spot" and fatfinger.

[ChristianeSparkle]

So a French Hornist just told me he tested out the LeFreque and immediately noticed all his notes are centered, and a certain note he can never hit the right pitch is in tune now.

How... odd, I am still not really convinced though. I don't know. I've also noticed another Euph player who's using it that don't seem to tie it to the mouthpiece as per the instruction, the bridge doesn't touch the "bell" of the mouthpiece at all.

Maybe I will ask the French Horn player to let me play with one and see.

[franz]

For what it is worth I have noticed that Steven Mead who advertises them on his online store does not use them. Moreover the positive comments on their use on the euphonium on the notes of LefreQue are almost all by Besson Prestige/Sovreign players. I have no noticed any of the Adams players in this forum that uses them, indeed some of them who has tried had more negative effects than positive. I infer so that also depends on the instruments. I use them only on the Besson 2052 which, it seems, they have any positive effects on the sound. I have them and I use them, but I would not be sick.

[graeme]

For what it is worth I have noticed that Steven Mead who advertises them on his online store does not use them. Moreover the positive comments on their use on the euphonium on the notes of LefreQue are almost all by Besson Prestige/Sovreign players. I have no noticed any of the Adams players in this forum that uses them, indeed some of them who has tried had more negative effects than positive. I infer so that also depends on the instruments. I use them only on the Besson 2052 which, it seems, they have any positive effects on the sound. I have them and I use them, but I would not be sick.

Hi Franz. Im not sure are you saying they have a positive effect on your 2052

[franz]

Hi Franz. Im not sure are you saying they have a positive effect on your 2052

Yes, I have fixed them on my Prestige and I am 100x100 sure that the sound with them is better, with more projection,intonation and security on the attack of the notes. Not so, however, for the other instruments I play, a JP 373 baritone and a Bach 42G trombone. I repeat, on my euohonium I am convinced that they have a positive effect but, on other instruments with different interpreters, it may not be the same.

[tonewheeler]

For what it is worth I have noticed that Steven Mead who advertises them on his online store does not use them. Moreover the positive comments on their use on the euphonium on the notes of LefreQue are almost all by Besson Prestige/Sovreign players. I have no noticed any of the Adams players in this forum that uses them, indeed some of them who has tried had more negative effects than positive. I infer so that also depends on the instruments. I use them only on the Besson 2052 which, it seems, they have any positive effects on the sound. I have them and I use them, but I would not be sick.

I noticed that too Franz...interesting....

[Snorlax]

I maintain that any effect of anything added to the upper bow is simply due to the presence of additional mass at a point where the brass of the instrument is stretched thin on all euphoniums EXCEPT Adams. Adams has found a way to keep the thickness of the brass constant where it bends. Older generations of euph players often placed thick "golf tape" on the upper bow.

As to the mouthpiece where it inserts into the receiver, I can't think of any point at which a non-soldered metal-to-metal bond would be stronger, unless there is a poor fit of the mouthpiece into the receiver--in which case a repair to the receiver or the mouthpiece would provide a secure fit.

As always, color me skeptical...remember that little plastic collar that was supposed to be slipped into the fourth valve slide to open up the low register on tubas and euphoniums? What was it called? At least it cost only $20 or so.

[Sara Hood]

I was just watching some Misa Mead videos and I noticed that in several of them, she uses a LefreaQue plate on her receiver. For what ever that is worth....
- Sara

[TheJH]

It's been so long since I've tried a LeFreque plate, maybe I should try one again now I've improved and have a better understanding of my playing and my instruments. My previous observations were that it made slotting somewhat easier, but that it reduced tonal quality in the high register. But that was 4 years ago.

[ghmerrill]

As to the mouthpiece where it inserts into the receiver, I can't think of any point at which a non-soldered metal-to-metal bond would be stronger, unless there is a poor fit of the mouthpiece into the receiver--in which case a repair to the receiver or the mouthpiece would provide a secure fit.

In fact, it can be so strong that you may need some mechanical advantage to break that bond. I've had some mildly embarrassing experiences with my Wick 3XL tuba mouthpiece in my Wessex Eb tuba where at the end of a rehearsal I couldn't extract it from the receiver until I got home and could manage to torque it out by using some rubber shelf liner material to get enough friction to turn it. So far as I can see, this happens if I manage to insert it while turning it a bit, and then the horn heats up and that joint seems to really "bond". Sometimes all it's taken is for the horn to cool down, and by the time I got home, the mouthpiece came out as usual. But in other situations, I've had to use the rubber friction aid to get it out.

... remember that little plastic collar that was supposed to be slipped into the fourth valve slide to open up the low register on tubas and euphoniums? What was it called? At least it cost only $20 or so.

Somehow I missed this. Maybe it was during the 10 years when I'd stopped playing? Please try to retrieve the name of this item from your aging and overloaded memory. I'm very curious about it -- particularly because, on the face of it, it seems completely insane.

[Snorlax]

Gary, it is the ACOUSTICOIL: http://backintheusa.us/company.php?c...AIIRRAcoustics ...and it's still being sold!

The link goes to another site that supposedly sells the device, but I didn't see it after a quick scan.