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Thread: Seeking advice on purchasing an older Besson (or something else?)

  1. #1

    Seeking advice on purchasing an older Besson (or something else?)

    Greetings to all, and thanks to David and all the other experienced musicians that post and maintain this forum...this is my first post.

    I played euphonium in college in the late 70's. I was not a very good player even at my personal best, but enjoyed it (I was a music education major).

    Life soon took me in other directions for a career, and in the late 90's, when I sold the Besson 3+1 compensating euphonium (I'm not sure what model it was) which my mother had given me to start my college career, I was sure I'd never want to return to playing regularly.

    I was wrong, lol.

    Last year I joined a "community band", and played on a borrowed Jupiter 3-valve baritone...and I loved the experience. So now, I'd like to have a euphonium of my own again, and I turned to craigslist yesterday and found a listing very close by for a very appealing horn for sale. I inspected the horn today and played it a bit, and liked it... then I started trying to determine if it was a good value, and that brought me to this forum.

    Now that I've read some articles and threads on this forum, I'm not sure the horn I'm considering would be the best for a player of my "skill" level, even at the "right" price (I use the word "skill" EVER so loosely, hehe). That being said, here are the questions on my mind, about the specific horn I'm considering, and any other potential purchase I might make:

    The horn i'm considering at the moment is a Besson 3+1 compensating euphonium, circa 1962 (the year of build is based on the serial number info I found linked up here on the forum; that number is 341xxx). It seems to me to have had some dents removed, and still has others that need work, but nothing too severe in my estimation. I played it, the tone was lovely, and it reminded me very much of the horn I played in college, which was probably made in 1977 or '78. I am guessing, also based on descriptions I read today, that it is a New Standard (sloped shape to the valve buttons seems to be the distinguishing feature) but I would love to know where the horn "ranked" in the hierarchy of Besson euphoniums of that era.

    The seller is asking $1,000 for this horn, and that price includes a modern soft "backpack" style case, some technique books and sheet music, and a mouthpiece that is the wrong shank size (this horn seems to have a "medium" receiver). I was told by one local dealer/repair-shop that the price was not in line with the value of that particular instrument, but I won't disclose at this moment whether he thought it to be high or low, so as not to influence the judgement of those who might respond here.

    The amount is near the upper limit of what I'm willing to pay for any horn, but the more important concern is that WHATEVER amount I pay, for this instrument or any other, I don't want to overpay now and not be able to sell the instrument later for approximately what I paid for it.

    So my first question, specifically about the 1962 Besson for sale, is: what would a fair price be? (I'm in Los Angeles, if that makes a difference).

    My next question, which I didn't even realize I had until I read a few threads here, is: what might a better horn for me be? I was reminded while reading this forum of something I learned back in college: that the Besson tone quality was highly regarded, but they were known for having inherent intonation difficulties in certain registers. I've seen that David is fond of the Wessex as a good choice for a non-professional...are there others I might consider, at the price point of around $1200 and below?

    Lastly, a question that is the overlap of the first two (value, and suitability): from a strictly financial perspective, I'm guessing that an older Besson would be more likely to "keep" its value, over, say, the next decade or two, than a brand new Wessex. In other words, it intuitively seems more likely that if I spent $1000-1500 on an older Besson, I'd recoup that same amount when I sold it, but if I spent the same amount on a NEW Wessex, or other similar quality modern horn, it would likely drop in resale value over the same period...I'd love to read your thoughts on that.

    Many thanks to all of you who are still reading at the end of this long-winded post, and thanks in advance to all who share a response to any of the questions above.

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum, Ron!

    It's hard to pin a price on the horn without seeing a few photos, because condition does matter. The finish is not so important, although a nice shiny horn will fetch more $$ than one with half its lacquer gone. But number, size, and location of dents matter. Anything other than a very small dent in the leadpipe could be a concern, for example. Also, evidence of poor repairs may be a flag. And the other serious flag would be if the valves are worn badly - that's a costly "fix" if you need to have them replated and lapped.

    I like the old Bessons and most players know they are built like tanks. When I see a good one on eBay I'll list it here. There are a few I have ignored, because the condition was suspect. A couple had visibly misaligned tubes and evidence of quick repairs. So I don't now where your prospective horn falls in that range.

    For the sake of argument, let's assume the horn is in average condition, and the valves are good and seal well (no excessive air leakage around them). If so, $1,000 is a rock-bottom price. As with many others, I hated the sloping finger buttons, mostly because the top cap of the piston was the same design and gave me skinned knuckles a few times! However, the early '60's were a good time for Bessons, and horns made in that era are usually good.

    Hope that's helpful.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Thank you, David, for such a great and fast response!

    I haven't posted in forums such as this very often, and posting photos is definitely a new trick for me...but I'm hoping I've got it figured out... If this works, I should be able to post a few more.

    I don't have the experience to evaluate the valves, but all your points make sense. Thank you too for the price evaluation, that's very very helpful. I got a local referral a reliable and very experienced repair technician who is in business very close to where the seller lives, so I'm going to request that we meet next at the repair shop, and allow the technician to have a look at the horn.

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  4. #4
    A few more photos... Again, with thanks for looking!

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  5. #5
    From the photos it looks like condition is good. The dent on the large tube near the 4th valve is the biggest one I see. It probably isn't hurting performance much. In any case be aware that it would be tough to fix because it includes areas under the bow guards and not under the bow guards. Some unsoldering and disassembly would be required to fix it, and I don't think the effort is warranted unless you're looking to have a "pretty face". The dents on the right-hand-brace are totally meaningless for performance because no air flows through that tube. And I don't see any misalignment of the main tubes, which is good. Just be sure to have someone check the pistons for excessive wear.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    What Dave said. Have a tech check for corroded/worn pistons. If OK there, go for it.

    From a New Standard junkie....

    d

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