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Thread: Selling on the Forum - Policy Discussion

  1. #21
    Gary, your little comment, "leaving aside the concept of a 'savvy advertising manager' . . ." hasn't gone completely out of my mind for the past several days now. I'm trying to figure out whether you've had some experience with advertising managers that leaves you thinking that "savvy" would seem more than likely oxymoronic or whether I'm just missing something. So since I can't figure out where my unintended apparent humor lies, I guess I'll have to break down and ask. Can you enlighten me, please?


    Randy

  2. #22
    Join Date
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    Central North Carolina
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    Based on my experience (primarily with marketing people in large multi-national corporations), there are in fact those who can be regarded as "savvy". I once, for a year (and as a matter of convenience to both the company and me) worked out of a Novartis US marketing/sales office in NC. Really odd situation. All these drug reps and marketers, and one guy in the Novartis AI group! But those people were SAVVY -- particularly in what they knew about their products, all the way down to the biochemistry and specific sub-populations of patients. However, a given "advertising manager" is generally very unlikely to have any specific domain knowledge of the target he's selling into and will go with whatever generic statistics he can get on sales, preferences, etc. based on wherever he can get or buy that information. So he can be "savvy" in general techniques of selling/marketing (the channels, how to get information to/in front of people), but not at all savvy in some of the critical information concerning the particular sub-group that will/would in fact disproportionately buy the particular product. This is where the Novartis guys were at the top of their game -- because they knew all that (and of course had a virtually unlimited budget and internal resources to provide the needed information). Someone from an "advertising agency" would not.

    I think something similar is true of any "specialized" demographic (like brass players, tuba/euphonium players, etc.). It's easier now that statistics on the web are being sliced and diced with such enthusiasm and huge amounts of data are being gathered, and "intelligent analytics" are being applied to that. But then you actually have to buy that data and the results of those analytics (or perform the analysis yourself) to become sufficiently "savvy" to market your product competitively.

    So ... not so briefly, I'm afraid ... that's what I had in mind.
    Last edited by ghmerrill; 08-13-2018 at 07:18 AM.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  3. #23
    At least I wasn't missing the obvious. :-)

    Since we're dealing with such small-potatoes stakes here, I guess the kind of companies and people Dave will be dealing with will not be in the league you describe and won't have access to such analytical tools. BUT they might have some wits about them and at least wonder to what extent the numbers they're looking at do represent their real target audience. In the case of Dave's site here, I would think that the percentage of clicks that represent actual tuba and euphonium players is pretty high, without much noise mixed in.

    Hope you didn't have anything TOO much better to do than write up your explanation; if so, sorry I cost you that time. I do enjoy getting a window into matters that I know little about, so I didn't consider the reading a waste at all. It'll come as no surprise to you or others who recognize my username if I confess that I can get a little carried away myself from time to time. I'm the sort that can rather enjoy being on the other end of that kind of dealing, too. :-)

    By the way, if I'm remembering your location correctly, I was up that way the other day, visiting the Tuba Exchange and the Simonetti collection (a must-see, if you haven't seen it--unless you don't care anything about old tubas and euphs). Stayed for a Bulls game, which they lost 5-4 on a homer in the top of the 9th. They had the tying run at 3rd with 2 outs in the bottom, but couldn't get him home. At least it didn't go extra innings so *I* could get home before I fell asleep driving--arrived back about 2:30 a.m. A very nice day in Durham.

    Randy
    Last edited by RandyL; 08-13-2018 at 11:27 PM.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by RandyL View Post
    Since we're dealing with such small-potatoes stakes here, I guess the kind of companies and people Dave will be dealing with will not be in the league you describe and won't have access to such analytical tools. BUT they might have some wits about them and at least wonder to what extent the numbers they're looking at do represent their real target audience. In the case of Dave's site here, I would think that the percentage of clicks that represent actual tuba and euphonium players is pretty high, without much noise mixed in.
    I suspect that the larger manufacturers at least would have the knowledge and interest -- and the advertising budgets -- to go for the exposure that this forum would give them. Anything below that level (even the "boutique" instrument manufacturers) would be a different issue. But you never know until you try, and I for one don't know how much they advertise or when. However, we do know what the going rate now is in the case of some sites.

    By the way, if I'm remembering your location correctly, I was up that way the other day, visiting the Tuba Exchange and the Simonetti collection (a must-see, if you haven't seen it--unless you don't care anything about old tubas and euphs). Stayed for a Bulls game, which they lost 5-4 on a homer in the top of the 9th. They had the tying run at 3rd with 2 outs in the bottom, but couldn't get him home.
    I bought my first tuba (a Yamaha 321S Eb with a main slide trigger added) from Vince in the early 90s -- having never actually touched a tuba before. Last time I was up there was about 3 years ago (after the TE was sold). The collection now seems to be in a peculiar state, with the Simonettis apparently looking for someone to "manage" (and perhaps house?) it. There's a huge amount of money in that collection (which is essentially a museum), but I think its future is becoming unclear. In addition, it was never in a good area of Durham (insofar as Durham can be said to have good areas).

    We used to go to Durham a lot (we live about 45 minutes south of it, just off 15/501) since my son and his family lived there. But aside from medical appointments (all our docs now are in the Duke system), we avoid it now since he went off to work for Amazon in Seattle. I can't get my wife to go to a Bulls game (too hot, it's in the center of Durham, etc.), and haven't been to one in probably 25 years. But she's happy to go to one Salamanders game per year where the community band I'm now in plays an opening concert. Very easy for us to get to, no parking issue, not crowded (stands mostly empty), but okay food and excellent beer. A different level of play, and fun to watch.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  5. #25
    Vince's website indicates that he had a curator, but no longer. Someone is on tap to visit the collection and write up an article on it for the ITEA Journal. I suggested this idea to the current editor, Benjamin Pierce, who has put things into motion to see it happen. I don't know yet of course whether it will fully materialize, but I hope it will. Perhaps that article will generate some interest in the collection and an appropriate party will come forward to take it up and into the future. Interestingly, when I told Vince we were planning to attend that evening's game, he said, "I'm going too!" But we didn't see him there. He didn't say whether Ethel would accompany him, and we didn't ask!

    We've heard about some roughness in Durham, but during the daylight hours when we've visited that part of town, we haven't sensed much of an issue.

    Regards,

    Randy

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