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Thread: Antoine Courtois' Euphonium information

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RobBartom View Post
    He said the Besson Prestige is a professionnal version and the Besson Sovereign a semi professionnal version.
    Well... Yes and No. Keep in mind that until about 20 years ago the Sovereign was the top of the line and was used by the top British players (except the ones who jumped to York, which was basically the same design). And 20 years before that the New Standard was used by all the professional players.

    The change to Sovereign was significant in the case of the 967 and more subtle in the case of the 968. It reflected the trend toward bigger, darker sounds.

    However, I don't think that is so much the case with the Prestige. Speaking of the basic horn, not counting the trigger and gold trim, the Sovereign is a good competitor to the Prestige. Some like its sound better. And when Buffet took over production, the bore increased to what the Prestige uses. I would consider the Sovereign a professional horn, especially if you can get one with a trigger.

    FWIW... Not many consider the New Standard a modern professional horn, although some still use it with excellent results (for example, Phil Franke who recently retired from The U.S. Marine Band).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  2. I decided to watch some Melton Meinl Weston 551 euphonium photos and my Courtois A367 matches perfectly.
    Furthermore the bell diameter is announced at 310 mm wide and on my Courtois it is 300 mm. You can just guess I found 300 mm bell diameter on Meinl Weston vendors for the 551 version.
    It is also mention that the 551 has a Heavy gold brass big bell. What is the point behind this ?
    I understand that the metal layer is not thin so that for low pitched sounds the sound quality is great without vibrations.
    I can compare to the basic MTP compensated euphonium which low pitched sounds are like tin can sounds.

    Also I wander why very few people mention the MMW 551s on the Web site. Is it finally a instrument under Besson prestige, Adams E3, Yamaha 842s in term of quality ?
    Or because on this US site people would tend to favor 'local' euphoniums ?

    Rob

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    613
    I'd like to see a 'local' pro euph made in the USA today...

    Dennis
    One show at a time...


    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

  4. In Europe instruments (or anything else) sellers mention 'Designed in Europe', meaning that the item is not producted, assembled in Europe.
    I guess the factories are in Asia, but I believe you have some euphoniums designers in North America and then manufactured overseas ?

    Some instruments the US can be proud of.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    613
    Quote Originally Posted by RobBartom View Post
    I guess the factories are in Asia, but I believe you have some euphoniums designers in North America and then manufactured overseas ? Some instruments the US can be proud of.
    Please tell who that would be...

    DG
    One show at a time...


    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

  6. Quote Originally Posted by RobBartom View Post
    I decided to watch some Melton Meinl Weston 551 euphonium photos and my Courtois A367 matches perfectly.
    Furthermore the bell diameter is announced at 310 mm wide and on my Courtois it is 300 mm. You can just guess I found 300 mm bell diameter on Meinl Weston vendors for the 551 version.
    It is also mention that the 551 has a Heavy gold brass big bell. What is the point behind this ?
    I understand that the metal layer is not thin so that for low pitched sounds the sound quality is great without vibrations.
    I can compare to the basic MTP compensated euphonium which low pitched sounds are like tin can sounds.

    Also I wander why very few people mention the MMW 551s on the Web site. Is it finally a instrument under Besson prestige, Adams E3, Yamaha 842s in term of quality ?
    Or because on this US site people would tend to favor 'local' euphoniums ?

    Rob
    Can you share some pictures of your Courtois 367? I would love to take a look as your link does not work anymore since you purchased the instrument. I remember that your 367 to have smaller (shorter) valves than the Courtois 267 so than the Melton 551. But the rest of the budy should be the same as the Melton 551. The only differences between the Courtois 267 and Melton 551 are the valve finger buttons. The Melton used their common buttons and Courtois their classic "Courtois shaped" buttons (wich are prettier to me) and also the trigger. The Courtois trigger is pressed by the left middel finger, as I is in the back side of the instrument as well as on the earlier Meltons. The later Meltons used to have the Besson shaped frontal trigger, like, again, Besson, Yamaha, etc.

    There was also a special Melton model, The "Melton Culbertson - Merkur- 551" supposed to be designed in consultation with Mel Culbertson, an American Tuba player that stabilished in France and who also dessigned a CC Tuba (Mel Culbertson Neptune) and a couple of F tubas (Mel Culbertson Apollo and Mel Culbertson Vulcano wich evolved to the Melton Culbertson Titan). This special Melton Culbertson had the trigger in the back and an outstanding gold lacquer, yes, like the new Besson, and the Mel Culbertson "Sun" Logo.

    A couple of pictures of my 267
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A couple of pictures of the Melton Culbertson Merkur
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by joshealejo; 04-06-2019 at 06:01 PM.
    C Courtois 168 "D'Orchestre" French Tuba
    Bb Courtois 267 "Challenger" Euphonium
    F B&S 56AFT "Alessandro Fossi" Bass Tuba
    CC B&S 4098 "Mel Culbertson - Neptune" Contrabass Tuba

  7. Courtois 367 photos

    Quote Originally Posted by joshealejo View Post
    Can you share some pictures of your Courtois 367? I would love to take a look as your link does not work anymore since you purchased the instrument. I remember that your 367 to have smaller (shorter) valves than the Courtois 267 so than the Melton 551. But the rest of the budy should be the same as the Melton 551. The only differences between the Courtois 267 and Melton 551 are the valve finger buttons. The Melton used their common buttons and Courtois their classic "Courtois shaped" buttons (wich are prettier to me) and also the trigger. The Courtois trigger is pressed by the left middel finger, as I is in the back side of the instrument as well as on the earlier Meltons. The later Meltons used to have the Besson shaped frontal trigger, like, again, Besson, Yamaha, etc.

    There was also a special Melton model, The "Melton Culbertson - Merkur- 551" supposed to be designed in consultation with Mel Culbertson, an American Tuba player that stabilished in France and who also dessigned a CC Tuba (Mel Culbertson Neptune) and a couple of F tubas (Mel Culbertson Apollo and Mel Culbertson Vulcano wich evolved to the Melton Culbertson Titan). This special Melton Culbertson had the trigger in the back and an outstanding gold lacquer, yes, like the new Besson, and the Mel Culbertson "Sun" Logo.

    A couple of pictures of my 267
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	46472613_1889164977785832_5213951045914329088_n.jpg 
Views:	24 
Size:	132.9 KB 
ID:	6827
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	46440689_1889165264452470_288414784867532800_n.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	72.7 KB 
ID:	6828

    A couple of pictures of the Melton Culbertson Merkur
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	13603694_10208497553308778_3423551205446944462_o.jpg 
Views:	21 
Size:	195.0 KB 
ID:	6829
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Hello,

    I provide some photos I took yesterday.Click image for larger version. 

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  8. Quote Originally Posted by highpitch View Post
    I'd like to see a 'local' pro euph made in the USA today...

    Dennis
    I think Kanstul is the closest we got before they closed shop.
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Sterling Virtuoso w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE955 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD w/ Bach 1G)

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Sturgis, South Dakota
    Posts
    872
    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    I think Kanstul is the closest we got before they closed shop.
    Kanstul is out of business? I didn't know that.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone, Edwards T396-A Tenor Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    Kanstul is out of business? I didn't know that.
    On the Kanstul website (lower on the home page):

    A message to our friends

    Effective immediately, Kanstul Musical Instruments is putting a hold on new orders for instruments, parts and accessories. We are undergoing a transition that requires an indefinite halt in production.

    In the meantime, the Kanstul family and team want to express our deep appreciation to our customers, business partners and friends for the business and incredible support we’ve received over the 38 years since Zig Kanstul founded the company.

    We will update on any further developments.

    Please direct any questions via email to sales@kanstul.com.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

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