C Euphoniums

[GeoMiklas]

Any thoughts on the Bb/C (or C/Bb) Euphoniums on eBay?

I play a CC tuba, and am looking at one of these Euphoniums for Bydlo and other places where a pit orchestra book has the tuba doubling on Euphonium or Baritone.

Thanks,
George

[davewerden]

Can you post an eBay link as an example?

I would suggest that ALL the top-rated horns, at any price level, are in the natural key of Bb.

HOWEVER, confusion can arise because of our sheet music. If you pick up my horn and play bass clef music, you will play in concert pitch. A written C will come out as a C from the horn. But if you are playing a Bb treble part (99% of them are in Bb), you would play a written C open, and it would come out of the horn as a Bb.

[iiipopes]

Can you post an eBay link as an example?

I would suggest that ALL the top-rated horns, at any price level, are in the natural key of Bb.

HOWEVER, confusion can arise because of our sheet music. If you pick up my horn and play bass clef music, you will play in concert pitch. A written C will come out as a C from the horn. But if you are playing a Bb treble part (99% of them are in Bb), you would play a written C open, and it would come out of the horn as a Bb.

What Dave said. There is great confusion about what a "C" instrument is, and what playing in "concert pitch" is, as opposed to transposed notation pitch and what each is all about. Dave summed it up succinctly.

Bottom line: there are no reputable C euphoniums as there are CC tubas. If you want to play euph, and a reputable instrument at that, you will have to purchase a Bb euph, and re-learn Bb fingerings, just as you used to do in school on BBb school instruments.

[GeoMiklas]

Can you post an eBay link as an example?

eBay Link

HOWEVER, confusion can arise because of our sheet music.

Dave, I own a Bb Euphonium, I used to play both concert pitch bass clef and transposing treble clef baritone music. There is no confusion on my part, I know the difference.

Bottom line: there are no reputable C euphoniums as there are CC tubas. If you want to play euph, and a reputable instrument at that, you will have to purchase a Bb euph, and re-learn Bb fingerings, just as you used to do in school on BBb school instruments.

My issue is to switch between a CC tuba and Bb Euphonium in the middle of a song, then take the chance at "blowing" the next note because my brain didn't shift from C to Bb fingerings. Now if these show books used concert pitch bass clef tuba and transposing treble clef baritone, I would be able to make the jump with ease.

[GeoMiklas]

So is there anybody custom cutting a reputable Bb euphonium to produce a C euphoninum?

[davewerden]

So is there anybody custom cutting a reputable Bb euphonium to produce a C euphoninum?

Not that I have ever heard of, and for good reason.

You would need to take away about 12" of length. Look at the first valve slide. That's how much length you have to take out.

Now, what makes a euphonium a euphonium is that its tubing tapers from beginning to end, except for the valve section and the tuning slide legs. The main tuning slide is already very short on the 4th valve side - taking any length from that is not advisable if you want to adjust your tuning, and in any case you'd only pick up maybe 1.5-2". So 10" more to go.

If you take 10" out of the large tube after the tuning slide (the piece that loops above the valve), your first problem would be its shorter length might crowd your valve hand a bit. But the larger problem is that you would have to figure a way to re-taper that whole tube. If that were done perfectly (at great cost) it would greatly change the pace of increase of the overall horn taper.

I think you can get used to the change from CC to Bb. I just finished a church gig where the trumpet player changed horns for each movement of a 3-movement suite. Started with piccolo trumpet in A, then trumpet in C, then picc in A again.

Or you could change to BBb tuba

[davewerden]

eBay Link

I don't recall anyone talking about having played a horn like that. The Chinese clones have made good progress because they copy proven designs, and they have gotten pretty good at it. But I'm not sure what horn would have been used as the model for this one.

[adrian_quince]

Regarding the switch from CC tuba to Euphonium in bass clef, really the only solution is to practice the switch a bunch at home. I've played several brass quintet concerts jumping between Bb, C, Eb, and Piccolo trumpet. Even though the fingerings are the same, it still took practice to have pitch security on the different instruments.

[bbocaner]

I think Wessex used to sell those, they called them the "bydlo" model -- and stopped because they just didn't play well or in tune at all. It's really hard on a conical instrument to make an instrument that plays satisfactorily in two different keys. It doesn't even work well on trumpets, actually. It's really not difficult with a little practice to get a second set of fingerings under your belt. Alternatively, you could try the wessex french tuba in C, which is EXACTLY the right thing for Bydlo -- but if you're playing musicals that double on euphonium it's not going to be exactly the euphonium sound.

[highpitch]

That Chinese horn is cute, but for less than $900 I'd say it's a turd.

Dennis

[58mark]

I had one of those for a week. Everything bad they say about them is true

[Sara Hood]

Just to be clear

Just to be clear, did the problem sound characteristics have anything to do with the rotary valves or the way the horn was wrapped/constructed? I have been wondering about the rotary euphoniums I have been seeing, mostly on Ebay. Never in an actual music store. To my eye, this instrument looks like a lot of other JinBao horns. I would feel more comfortable with someone else actually saying so.
- Sara

[58mark]

nothing wrong with a good rotary euph, it's the taper and intonation of this one that is out of whack

[highpitch]

At best used as a solo horn. Essentially that would be an orphan, gathering dust between uses.

In a section with other euphs, usually Blaikley pattern compensators, the partials never line up with rotor euphs.

Been there, tried that, several different examples.

As Dave said, learn to work a good Bb horn.

DDG

[ghmerrill]

Didn't we have a thread here a while ago involving someone in Portugal who turned out in fact to be playing a C euphonium? http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...C#.WwcUwUgvyUk.

Some are also mentioned here: http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...tone-Euphonium.

In any event, it is almost certainly easier/quicker/cheaper to just get a standard (Bb) euphonium and learn the fingerings -- isn't it?