WTB: British Baritone - 4-valve comper

[Eupher6]

Yeah, I know the 3-valve compers are out there, and I'm reasonably familiar with the good reviews on the Wessex BR140 -- but I'd really like to explore the 4-valve compers out there and see if one pops up.

I may be moving from BBb tuba to Baritone in my local brass band.

[Eupher6]

I note the Wessex BR144, their brand-new 4-valve comper baritone just released last month, if what I'm reading is accurate.

What's the wait time for one of these?

[John Morgan]

I note the Wessex BR144, their brand-new 4-valve comper baritone just released last month, if what I'm reading is accurate.

What's the wait time for one of these?

I just went to the Wessex site. They seem to have the BR144 in stock now. One lacquered sample left. I assume the other two (silver and silver/gold) are available. When they are sold out, the wait time for the next batch seems to be about 3 months.

[iiipopes]

Just know that due to the smaller bore of the BBB baritone compared to a euph, the lower range below (BBB convention transposed treble clef) middle C will get really grainy in a hurry. That is why 4-valve comp baritones are only of recent ilk compare to the tried-and-trued 3-valve comp BBB baritone.

[Eupher6]

I just went to the Wessex site. They seem to have the BR144 in stock now. One lacquered sample left. I assume the other two (silver and silver/gold) are available. When they are sold out, the wait time for the next batch seems to be about 3 months.

Thanks, John. I had not seen the "1 left" note earlier this morning when I looked, but did when I re-checked, so I bought it. Been wanting to buy a reasonably-priced baritone for some years now.

I've been playing the 3+1 setup for so long, I just don't want to have to work through the awkwardness with 1&3. After all, the MD has programmed Graham's Gaelforce, which has an extended section in concert C major at tempo half note 132, IIRC. Lays well on 3+1, but would be frightful to play without it.

Getting used to the small bore is really the only challenge I want right now, and it will be. Haven't played any kind of small bore anything in decades.

[bbocaner]

I'm a huge supporter of Wessex and own three of their instruments, but I really don't think the BR144 is ready for prime time yet. You'll have to use 1+3 for concert middle C, 1+2 for the D above that, 1+2 for the A a fifth above that. To me, that's more awkward than dealing with 1+3 and 1+2+3 fingerings in the low register. The Besson prestige has these same problems, but less pronounced.

[Eupher6]

I'm a huge supporter of Wessex and own three of their instruments, but I really don't think the BR144 is ready for prime time yet. You'll have to use 1+3 for concert middle C, 1+2 for the D above that, 1+2 for the A a fifth above that. To me, that's more awkward than dealing with 1+3 and 1+2+3 fingerings in the low register. The Besson prestige has these same problems, but less pronounced.

We'll see.

[LittleJimmy]

I have posted more than once about

We'll see.

my Yamaha 621s baritone and the fact that I am always emptying valves and pulling slides. So I was excited about the Wessex BR 144, ordered one, and it arrived almost 2 weeks ago. It's a very nice horn and was better than my Yamaha in terms of moisture but, as you would expect, doesn't play as well as my Yamaha, so I sent it back. It should arrive at Wessex on Friday.

Little Jimmy

[Eupher6]

my Yamaha 621s baritone and the fact that I am always emptying valves and pulling slides. So I was excited about the Wessex BR 144, ordered one, and it arrived almost 2 weeks ago. It's a very nice horn and was better than my Yamaha in terms of moisture but, as you would expect, doesn't play as well as my Yamaha, so I sent it back. It should arrive at Wessex on Friday.

Little Jimmy

Can you be a little more descriptive about "doesn't play as well as my Yamaha?"

What about it doesn't play well? Is it wonky intonation (maybe in the manner that bbocaner states, or something different), or something else?

[Eupher6]

The BR144 baritone came in on Saturday and I've had only a few minutes (maybe 30) to evaluate this instrument. First of all, the horn (I paid full MSRP at $1,450, plus $75 in shipping) was well packed and FedEx was unsuccessful in destroying it.

Initial impressions, after I gave the horn a bath to clean out whatever kind of oil might have been applied to the valves. I will be using Yamaha synthetic, so some Dawn and the Quick Horn Rinse, along with scrubbing out the piston casings with a brush and hand-washing the valves comprised the cleaning:

Fit and finish are good. Vented valves, nickel slides. I saw no poor connections, bad soldering, or other indicator of a sloppy job. The horn came with a 6.5A copy of what looked like a Bach mouthpiece. I used that mouthpiece as I don't have any other small shank mouthpieces at present. Will probably buy something a bit larger, but with a somewhat shallow cup.

Play-testing (again, over a very limited time) did not reveal any completely weird intonation quirks, except one. As bbocaner noted above, the concert D above middle C was significantly flat played open. Using 1-2 solved that problem. Using 3 made it worse, as expected.

Slotting was uneven, which surprised me. This could very well be a matter of me, in that I have been playing almost nothing but tuba of late, and getting used to the small bore will take more time than I had. But in general, I should be encountering even breaks between partials. Didn't have that, especially higher in the tessitura. Making the transition from concert D to concert F above the bass clef staff, for example, required more effort than it perhaps should have, with a wider-than expected gap in the partial. This will be something I will work on in individual practice, but right out of the box I found the slotting to be uneven. Not enough to be a show-stopper and something that I think could be gotten used to, but it was something I noticed.

The sixth partial F was spot-on, intonation-wise. (Yet another argument in support of the thesis that moving to the large bore Sov created an unexpected problem with that partial in the euph world, perhaps.)

In fact, I didn't encounter any other really wonky intonation problems except for that concert D above middle C. I'm not having to use any other alternate fingers save for that note, at least right now.

Will write more as things develop.

[opus37]

Congratulations on a new horn. This is almost always a fun experience. My BR140 seems to like a Denis Wick 5BS. You might want to consider that mouthpiece when you start your safari.

[bbocaner]

Glad it works well for you. The flat concert A issue was very pronounced when I tried it, so maybe it was a quirk of that individual instrument. Wessex is doing some great things.

I don't think I've ever tried a baritone that had a 6th partial F problem.

[Vombatidae]

Hello,

I just purchased a Wessex baritone and thought I would add my initial thoughts to this thread.

For background, I have been reading this forum off and on for a long time, but this is my first post. I'm primarily a trombone player, but have doubled euph for over 30 years. I mostly play in community bands/wind ensembles with the odd paying gig to sit in with pit orchestras for musicals, holiday cantatas and the like. I recently joined a German band where I will be playing the tenorhorn part, so I decided to get something a little more appropriate than my King 2280. On the other hand, I need something more versatile than an actual Kaiser-style horn, and a four-valve British baritone fits the bill nicely. Budget constraints mean a BE2056 isn't an option, and the used YBH-621s I've seen were also either too high or looked pretty rough.

The horn: BR-144 in silver with gold trim on valve buttons and caps only. No thumb ring, which is fine with me, but apparently some have it and some don't.

Shipping and service: A+
The horn shipped from the UK to NC in under three days, very well packed. The email I sent prior to ordering was responded to promptly and helpfully.

Overall fit and finish: B
There were some minor cosmetic flaws in the metal which weren't buffed out before the silver plating. Tooling marks are visible in a few spots.Solder joints are clean and sound, with occasional small bits of dross left behind. The Wessex engraving (stamp?) was weak and some lines were washed out, but still legible. Some polishing compound was left in a few nooks and crannies.

Mechanical: A
Valves are good, but still need breaking in, as I get a fair amount of dark residue when cleaning every 30 minutes of play. I may get stiffer springs, but it's not urgent. Tuning slides are top-notch - all 6 are perfectly aligned and operate smoothly, and the flanges on the tuning slide receivers are a nice touch. Seriously, these are better than the ones on my Bach trombones or the Yamaha euphs I have played. One minor issue is the threads on the valve bodies are somewhat shallow, and it would be easy to cross-thread the caps if I'm not careful. Getting the third valve lower cap off is a logistical challenge due to the plumbing, so I recommend making sure it doesn't freeze there - breaking it loose would be a bear.

Mouthpiece: F
In general it was not good. Maybe it's me, but it really made a mess of the lower register, and I consider it a paperweight. Marked "Wessex Young 6 1/2A", it looks like a Bach 6.5AL from the outside and has a similar rim, but the bowl is oddly funnel shaped and has a narrow throat. Didn't get the calipers out, sorry. Tooling marks were evident in the bowl. I tried four or five mouthpieces I had on hand, and not surprisingly, a Wick 6BS was a huge improvement. (I don't have a Wick 5BS or 4BS yet, but am thinking that might be an even better match.)

Intonation: B-
As noted by others, the fifth partial notes are flat, about 30 cents in my case. Usable in fast passage, can be lipped up if necessary, but alternate fingerings are often called for. Didn't have an issue with the A. 9th partial D is unusable, not that I have much call for it. Slotting was solid (once I changed mouthpiece) ...except on the fifth partials. B natural is particularly touchy. A concern is that the main tuning slide is almost all the way in (1/8") to get the horn up to standard pitch. I would prefer to have more range for adjustment. There is room for improvement here, but I have played far worse.

Tone: B
Subjective, of course, but not bad at all in most registers. The low end lacks the power I'm used to on trombone, but I expected that. I would personally prefer a somewhat heavier gauge bell - or at least I think I would - to darken the sound and project a little better.

Case and accessories: B+
Case is utilitarian and sturdy, which is fine. It is a little larger than needed for this horn, but I am guessing they reuse the shell with various inserts for a couple of different models. It has a holder for one mouthpiece, with all the spare room one or two more would be nice. Also included a pouch with spare springs, valve guides, a water key cork and a screw (that doesn't appear to fit anything on this horn); a polishing cloth, and a hat. Nice touch!

tl;dr : B
Not perfect, but a good value, especially if it isn't your main horn. I'll keep it.

As always, YMMV

[enhite]

Thanks for the review YMMV. Very interesting.

[John Morgan]

Thanks for the review YMMV. Very interesting.

I'm thinking, but not totally sure, that Mr. YMMV may actually be "vombatidae". YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary. Or maybe you knew that and were being humorous. Hi Ernie!

Indeed, that was an excellent review. Thanks for that.