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Thread: Besson 967 intonation question

  1. Besson 967 intonation question

    First off.... I'm new here to post, but have been sifting through different threads and reading up on a lot of stuff. Nice community for the tuba-euph players of the world.

    I've been playing my 967 since 2002. If I remember correctly that was right before the transition to the German made horns. Mine is still stamped London. I have a suspicion that the quality was dipping during this time period. Besides that... I've noticed that this horn plays consistently sharp. If I'm doing an outside concert in summer, that tuning slide is darn near all the way pulled out. I understand the heat and humidity are effecting this, but it's real difficult to play in tune if it's not cold.

    Do they make a longer main tuning slide for the 967s? Is that even a good idea to put in a longer tuning slide? I play on a SM4UX, but it doesn't matter what mouthpiece goes in, still sharp all the time.

  2. I also used to own a Besson 967 made in 2002, and it was wicked sharp at the 6th partial and upwards no matter which mouthpiece I used. Unfortunately I believe that was one of Besson's off years when it came to quality control.

    I ended up selling it and switching to a Sterling Virtuoso, which has good intonation across the board for the most part, and has a trigger than I can use strategically to get around some minor quirks.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkircoff View Post
    I also used to own a Besson 967 made in 2002, and it was wicked sharp at the 6th partial and upwards no matter which mouthpiece I used. Unfortunately I believe that was one of Besson's off years when it came to quality control.

    I ended up selling it and switching to a Sterling Virtuoso, which has good intonation across the board for the most part, and has a trigger than I can use strategically to get around some minor quirks.
    I believe the very sharp 6th partial has been a Besson issue for decades. My very uneducated guess is it is a compromise they are willing to allow in order to get the classic Besson sound. Others may know better.

  4. Typical solutions - Play 6th partial Eb 1-3 instead of 1. Play 6th partial F 1-2 instead of open or 1-3 or 4. Play middle G 3rd valve instead of 1-2.

    Or buy a copy of Dave Werden's euphonium fingering book and work with a tuner. ;-)
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  5. #5
    The 967 I owned (long since sold) was built in the mid-Nineties. It was a decent Besson, but it had the sharp sixth partial, pretty consistent with other Bessons I'd played on.

    I had an after-market trigger put on it by Dan Schultz, but that sharp sixth partial could not be brought down appreciably. That is one of the reasons I sold it.
    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385
    In your opinion, with regard to the high sixth partial, is not a common problem for brasses in general? On all the instruments that I have played all of them, some more or less, they had the sixth harmonic high, especially Eb. Even with my Bach 42 GO trombone, if I play the harmonics without moving the coulisse, the sixth partial is high. Even looking at the intonation chart by Mr. Werden of all euphoniums, except for the Adams, the sixth partial is, some more or less, high.
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    In your opinion, with regard to the high sixth partial, is not a common problem for brasses in general? On all the instruments that I have played all of them, some more or less, they had the sixth harmonic high, especially Eb. Even with my Bach 42 GO trombone, if I play the harmonics without moving the coulisse, the sixth partial is high. Even looking at the intonation chart by Mr. Werden of all euphoniums, except for the Adams, the sixth partial is, some more or less, high.
    You are exactly right. I've noticed this on all my trombones as well. It is also common on Bb trumpets. That is partly why the intonation was not too annoying in many passages if you were playing with trumpets (which is pretty common).

    The Sovereign 967 seemed to be the "champ" here. It was sharper than my New Standards and sharper than the 968 I tested somewhat extensively back in the day.

    In fairness to the Bessons, there is an urban legend that Besson used to send their less-good instruments to the United States. In my experience there was some truth to that outcome, but not to the intention. The problem was that the brass band players would often test out horns at the factory and choose the ones they thought were best to purchase for themselves. I think shipments over here often had the leftover instruments, which is completely logical. Even in the 1980's, when I was a Besson Artist, quality control was not terribly consistent for response and intonation. If they had been made in Maryland, USA, then I assume the Washington, D.C. players would have tried horns at the factory, resulting in leftover horns being sent to England.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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