Gearheads - help me find what I'm looking for

[XtremeEuph]

Hello folks. I have played on a Hirsbrunner euph for the past few years, and have used whatever mouthpiece worked for me at the time. I have been having an OK time with everything I try, but I believe I can get closer to what I want. (This is of course everybody's mouthpiece adventure).

My current full time horn is an Adams E3, which reacts quite similarly to the HB when it comes to mouthpieces. Regardless, the horn is nearly negligible.

I have narrowed down what I believe I do and do not like in the mouthpieces I have played. I have addressed Mr. Werden's chart and have come up with some possibilities that may fit. any input from those who have gone through the rounds on these mouthpieces is appreciated.

Ideally what I am looking for is a:

Bach 4G, with a rounder, bowl like (Yamaha 53) cup, and a slightly less flat, but cushy (Schilke 51D like) rim. That is to say likely a 26.00mm diameter, ~7.11 Throat, rounded cup

My opinion(s):

Yamaha 53H My most played mouthpiece currently. I like everything about it except that the diameter is ever so slightly too narrow. The rim is very sensitive to pressure. Endurance is great but soft starts flexibility take a LOT of concentration. This is me being very picky. Otherwise -great mouthpiece. I love the presence in the sound. The change in size to the Yamaha 54 could ease up some of the sensitivity with the rim and tendency for the lips lock up at inconvenient times.

Bach 4G I like the diameter. It fits my embouchure well. I always have issues with intonation pushing sharp with this piece, regardless of which horn I am playing. The tone feels a little thin - almost as though it is very bright with no worthy brilliance to the brightness. I believe it may be the semi-funnel shape of the cup. The rim feels OK.

Doug Elliott 104mm J8 I played this mouthpiece for a long time- even won a full time gig with it. That doesn't mean I love it. I could never get any mid to high overtones from this piece. Low overtones and thats it. It's a bit odd. The diameter is simply too wide, a 103 would have been a better fit. No complaints about the standard rim. It sounds a bit hollow to me. Perhaps the cup is also too large/deep.

Denis Wick SM4U I have tried this mouthpiece off and on just out of curiosity as a lend. I have a mental bias against Wick pieces simply because I have never liked playing them. The SM4U is free blowing, but feels extremely fluffy and 'dead' to me. By dead I mean a lack of presence. I believe the throat to be quite large. At least that is my perception. If I go from this to the 53H, the room suddenly explodes with sound. The flexibility and articulation on this piece is unbelievable. The rim feels thinner and flatter than I'm used to, but those results are great.

Anyway, all that said, I am trying to find a compromise. Suggestions?

Some ideas from reading the chart are:

Yamaha 54 - But the rim?
Rath L4 & L4 B.B
Hammond 11?
Perhaps a Schilke?

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Cheers,

XE

[RickF]

Have you tried Warburton BT16 - Demondrae Thurman’s mouthpiece? See specs here: http://www.warburtonstore.com/dethmo.html

[XtremeEuph]

Thanks RickF. I have never heard of them until now. Specs look just like an SM4 with a chubby rim. Have you played one yourself?

The Warburton 4G looks closer like what I'm looking for. Could be worth a trial if the dealer here can convince Warburton to do such a thing.

[RickF]

It’s the mpc that comes stock with the Miraphone 5050. The tone is great, but it’s just a bit too large for me and affects my endurance. Some other members here play on the BT16 and really like it. See this post for two of them:
http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...e#.WptwLVpOmhA

[mbrooke]

Hello folks. I have played on a Hirsbrunner euph for the past few years, and have used whatever mouthpiece worked for me at the time. I have been having an OK time with everything I try, but I believe I can get closer to what I want. (This is of course everybody's mouthpiece adventure).

My current full time horn is an Adams E3, which reacts quite similarly to the HB when it comes to mouthpieces. Regardless, the horn is nearly negligible.

I have narrowed down what I believe I do and do not like in the mouthpieces I have played. I have addressed Mr. Werden's chart and have come up with some possibilities that may fit. any input from those who have gone through the rounds on these mouthpieces is appreciated.

Ideally what I am looking for is a:

Bach 4G, with a rounder, bowl like (Yamaha 53) cup, and a slightly less flat, but cushy (Schilke 51D like) rim. That is to say likely a 26.00mm diameter, ~7.11 Throat, rounded cup

My opinion(s):

Yamaha 53H My most played mouthpiece currently. I like everything about it except that the diameter is ever so slightly too narrow. The rim is very sensitive to pressure. Endurance is great but soft starts flexibility take a LOT of concentration. This is me being very picky. Otherwise -great mouthpiece. I love the presence in the sound. The change in size to the Yamaha 54 could ease up some of the sensitivity with the rim and tendency for the lips lock up at inconvenient times.

Bach 4G I like the diameter. It fits my embouchure well. I always have issues with intonation pushing sharp with this piece, regardless of which horn I am playing. The tone feels a little thin - almost as though it is very bright with no worthy brilliance to the brightness. I believe it may be the semi-funnel shape of the cup. The rim feels OK.

Doug Elliott 104mm J8 I played this mouthpiece for a long time- even won a full time gig with it. That doesn't mean I love it. I could never get any mid to high overtones from this piece. Low overtones and thats it. It's a bit odd. The diameter is simply too wide, a 103 would have been a better fit. No complaints about the standard rim. It sounds a bit hollow to me. Perhaps the cup is also too large/deep.

Denis Wick SM4U I have tried this mouthpiece off and on just out of curiosity as a lend. I have a mental bias against Wick pieces simply because I have never liked playing them. The SM4U is free blowing, but feels extremely fluffy and 'dead' to me. By dead I mean a lack of presence. I believe the throat to be quite large. At least that is my perception. If I go from this to the 53H, the room suddenly explodes with sound. The flexibility and articulation on this piece is unbelievable. The rim feels thinner and flatter than I'm used to, but those results are great.

Anyway, all that said, I am trying to find a compromise. Suggestions?

Some ideas from reading the chart are:

Yamaha 54 - But the rim?
Rath L4 & L4 B.B
Hammond 11?
Perhaps a Schilke?

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Cheers,

XE

Have you considered considered a DE I cup w/ 103 rim? You didn't mention what cup you are using, but DE makes euph cups.

Mike

[djwpe]

It’s the mpc that comes stock with the Miraphone 5050. The tone is great, but it’s just a bit too large for me and affects my endurance. Some other members here play on the BT16 and really like it. See this post for two of them:
http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...e#.WptwLVpOmhA

put me down as another guy who loves the Warburton Demondrae. So much, in fact, that I had Warburton make me a 7ST Trombone piece with Demondrae's rim.

[JTJ]

If you like the ~7.11 throat you're dealing mostly with trombone mps. Dedicated euph mps are usually more open. The Alliance DC3 might work for you though. I it plays a bit more closed than the Wicks & has the cup width and rim shape you want. And it generates a lot of brilliance, especially when pushed. They may not be available new any more, but used ones come up for sale from time to time.

[euphisto]

This might be a curve ball, but you might contact Ivan Giddings to see if he would send you a copy of my mouthpiece for you to try. Like Brandon's mouthpiece, it was a modification of the EXL. My rim is wider and semi-round (or semi-flat depending on your point of view). It's a little deeper than the standard EXL and the throat is .286 in. The shape of the cup is also slightly different to accommodate the altered throat diameter. I had Ivan put a screw-on weight on the shank that can be made to contact the face of the lead pipe like Chris Castellanos's horn mouthpiece. I've tried many of the mouthpieces mentioned in the above comments and have found this Giddings mouthpiece to work best on my Hirsbrunner. I had not planned on this mouthpiece to be mass produced, just something that worked for me. I think Ivan has an extra copy.

Robert Pendergast, DM

[XtremeEuph]

Have you considered considered a DE I cup w/ 103 rim? You didn't mention what cup you are using, but DE makes euph cups.

Mike

He sent me a J cup with the 104. The 103 with an I cup I think is a step smaller with regards to both. IF the cup depth is the issue with the 'industrial overtones', then that would possibly be a great fit.

[XtremeEuph]

This might be a curve ball, but you might contact Ivan Giddings to see if he would send you a copy of my mouthpiece for you to try. Like Brandon's mouthpiece, it was a modification of the EXL. My rim is wider and semi-round (or semi-flat depending on your point of view). It's a little deeper than the standard EXL and the throat is .286 in. The shape of the cup is also slightly different to accommodate the altered throat diameter. I had Ivan put a screw-on weight on the shank that can be made to contact the face of the lead pipe like Chris Castellanos's horn mouthpiece. I've tried many of the mouthpieces mentioned in the above comments and have found this Giddings mouthpiece to work best on my Hirsbrunner. I had not planned on this mouthpiece to be mass produced, just something that worked for me. I think Ivan has an extra copy.

Robert Pendergast, DM

Thanks for the input. Why the screw-on weight?

Cheers

[euphisto]

The screw-on weight seems to center the sound better for me, or maybe there are more overtones. I think Ivan and Chris Castellanos did the majority of the research on this. I don't claim to be an engineer by any means. I just like the way it plays better when the weight is touching the face of the lead pipe.

Robert Pendergast, DM

[davewerden]

That screw-on weight is very interesting! May I assume the technique is to seat the mouthpiece and then turn the weight until it is firm against the leadpipe (without loosening the shank's seating)?

[euphisto]

That screw-on weight is very interesting! May I assume the technique is to seat the mouthpiece and then turn the weight until it is firm against the leadpipe (without loosening the shank's seating)?

That's correct.

[mbrooke]

He sent me a J cup with the 104. The 103 with an I cup I think is a step smaller with regards to both. IF the cup depth is the issue with the 'industrial overtones', then that would possibly be a great fit.

Not sure what you mean by "industrial overtones". But when it comes to sound issues, sometimes going a little smaller is the answer. The hollow sound you mentioned in your first post might simply be a lack of core to the sound. If that's the case, smaller (rim, cup, or both) may help. Contact Doug and describe the problem you are having and see what he suggests.

Mike