Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 43

Thread: Wessex French C Tuba

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385

    Wessex French C Tuba

    Is there anyone who has tried the Wessex French C Tuba- TC 236?
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  2. #2
    Considering that they are sold out, I'm sure we will hear quite soon about how people respond to it.
    University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance '21
    Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium Performance '24



    Besson Prestige 2052S
    Courtois 551BHRA
    Conn 88HCLSGX
    Various Greg Black mouthpieces

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    I've always been kind of fascinated with the idea of the French C tuba, and was unaware that Wessex had actually developed one. I thought it would be quite an interesting and potentially useful instrument. However, now looking at the specs, I've changed my mind.

    Aside from a kind of national/cultural/historical curiosity, I'm wondering why anyone would choose such an instrument given the contemporary alternatives.

    It's really not a tuba. It's a six-valve non-compensating euphonium. This in itself COULD be interesting, but when you compare it to a modern large bore euphonium, you have to wonder why anyone would choose the French C "tuba" -- and surely no one would now really choose it over a genuine tuba (in any of the common keys).

    What strikes me most in the comparison is that the instrument has a bell that is 2" less in diameter than the Wessex Dolce, and a smaller bore size!! This -- on reasonable objective grounds -- makes the Dolce more of a tuba than the French C. Yes, it's got those extra valves, but what do they get you -- other than much more complexity in fingering and intonation (which historically is one of the major raps against the French C, the second one being the stuffiness resulting from all those valves and twisty small bore tubing being added to the major conical "tuba part")?

    If you want to use a euphonium as a tuba (and I've done this quite a bit myself), or specifically a tenor tuba, then just get a good compensating euphonium and appropriate mouthpiece, and go at it. But I suppose that for only $500, it would be pretty cool to own one of these and mostly hang it on your wall. Maybe beside my oval Amati euphonium.

    Of course, I am ignoring the marketing hype of "distinctive Gallic tone" and "plays all Tuba music, down to the lowest register".

    Another thing that must somewhat uncharitably occur to me when looking at this instrument is: If it's similar in quality to the other Wessex instruments, and certainly more complex in construction, then how does it come out to be about 1/3 the price of those comparable instruments? Or perhaps, rather, how do those other instruments come out to be 3 times the price of this one. Just a bit puzzling from an economic point of view. Maybe it's just a test to determine interest in the market.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  4. It looks like they're taking $500 deposits. The full price is $2400 for lacquer and $2590 for silver. I think it's a neat little niche-instrument, but I also can't see buying one other than for collection purposes.

    At first glance, I'd expect that it plays and sounds like a slightly more restricted Dolce, given it's construction specs, but it'd be interesting to see and hear an actual review.
    Whatever you lose, you'll find it again. What you throw away, you'll never get back.

    -- Kenshin Himura




    1974 B & H Imperial / Bach 3G -- no LTE mouthpieces for me!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    191
    I guess it could be useful in the 'historical instrument/sound' approach of music. The music of 19th Century French composers was originally written for such instruments, wasn't it? Likewise Wessex also makes several types of Ophicleide; what is their use, other than playing it as an 'historical' instrument?
    The famous Dies Irae theme of Berlioz' Symphony Fantastique should be played on an Ophicleide, as should the music from Delibes' ballet Coppelia. Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if the tuba part of Franck's Symphony in D minor was meant for the French tuba in C, as it is mostly in the medium to higher register. Possibly other ballet-music as well (Stravinsky's Petrushka comes to mind, but I am sure other examples can be found).

    Edit:

    Having read the discription on their website just now, wich is pretty much the same as what I just said.
    Last edited by MarChant; 02-28-2018 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    I'm not swayed much by the "historical appropriateness" argument for using an instrument like this (or an ophicleide) -- at least unless the entire ensemble is using such instruments. But that makes the niche even narrower since it applies only to members of "reenactment" groups.

    Silly me. At $500 it seemed like an interesting acquisition on a lark. At $2,400 -- not so much.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #7
    I'm not sure I understand the unique characteristics of a French C tuba. I have and have played a lot of old horns. Some are made in France during the late 1800s. Would these be similar in sound? I have an old helicon that fits these descriptions which I play in parades. I guess tone color doesn't matter that much in those situations. I have found an old euphonium that looks like it is from the same era. It has the same style valves as my helicon but it was made in England. I am negotiating the price, we'll see if I get it. Anyway, it seems to have a brighter sound, more like an American baritone. Would this be similar in sound characteristics to the type of horn we are discussing?

    As a side note, the band I play in during the summer takes one concert and we pull out our old horns, usually from the early 1900s and play some of the period music. The crowd likes it when we describe the old horns. A few double bells, a couple of old cornets, Eb horns and my 1912 Martin Eb are the most common to show up.

  8. Everyone likes to look at the current state of the art and look backwards. Nobody wants to look at the previous state of the art and look forwards. The French C tuba is one of those instruments. It comes from a time after the invention of the Perinet valve, but before the invention of both BBb and CC tubas as we know them in general, and before the Blaikley compensating system, and at a time when bores for brass instruments were smaller overall. It was a look ahead for its time, with a large bore compared to the other instruments at the time, plumbing to extend the low register, and in the context of replacing the ophicleide, instead of producing the organ-like foundation we expect out of tubas today.

    I am in favor of "historically accurate" performances for this reason. Play a piece as you will, but if you don't learn how it was played when it was written, you have no context to develop your own artistic interpretation in light of current instruments and performance pedagogy. Would a modern 4-valve large bore large bell throat euphonium work? Yes. But that is not the point. You don't know where you are going unless you know where you have been.

    I applaud Wessex for giving us the means to maintain the links to our musical heritage: ophicleides, sackbuts, French C tubas, etc.

  9. #9
    I tried one at the TUSABTEW last month. Unfortunately, the valves were sticking badly, Jonathan thought it was due to the mouthpiece sanitizer they were using running into the valves. Even after applying a bunch of oil it was not working well. It was hard to get a sense for the instrument as a whole with the valves misbehaving so much. However, my overall impression was positive. It seemed well-made. I was playing it with a euphonium mouthpiece but really it should be played with a small tuba mouthpiece. I'd be interested to hear what it was like that way.

    These aren't from that distant a past -- they were still in use in some french orchestras up until the 1960s! I think it may be relevant still with the right repertoire assuming at least the trombone section plays along on smaller instruments. I think it's sad how many of these local variations on instruments have been homogenized out and some of the repertoire really comes alive and makes sense when players take the original instruments into account. One example is the trend for US orchestras to use rotary trumpets and german-style dual-bore trombones for german romantic repertoire. It makes a lot of sense and sounds great. I'm not an orchestral tubist, and if I do get called to do a Bydlo I'd rather do it on a bigger-sounding instrument which will fit in with a modern brass section, not to mention the fact that I'd be more comfortable on euphonium! But... I feel like it'd be fun to have and to work on. I wouldn't be opposed to getting one for myself -- but it's not at the top of my wish list.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
    Posts
    2,368
    Quote Originally Posted by iiipopes View Post
    Play a piece as you will, but if you don't learn how it was played when it was written, you have no context to develop your own artistic interpretation in light of current instruments and performance pedagogy. Would a modern 4-valve large bore large bell throat euphonium work? Yes. But that is not the point. You don't know where you are going unless you know where you have been.
    Of course, taking this argument seriously and in full generality would have us all "coming up through the ranks" of music by, in sequence, tracing the history of all musical instruments, and learning to play each competently before moving on. At the very least, for brass players, this would require us to learn and play things like the ophicleide, the Russian Bassoon, valveless trumpets and horns, saxhorns, sackbuts, etc. But it also, if we take it seriously, requires us to reach back at least to Roman and Greek times. This is the only way to "know where you have been".

    Beyond that, however, it really requires us to go back beyond the advent of brass instruments to their predecessors and to the earliest wind and string instruments, or perhaps even to voice. It's all part of this history that, in this view, forms a continuum that informs our interpretations. I suspect that even iiipopes doesn't really want to endorse this view to the degree required to take it seriously in generality, but in practice and in his own musical life draws the line somewhere. He just seems to want to draw the line somewhere in the 19th century. But if the reasoning here is good, then the line can't be drawn at all. I think the reasoning is unsound, and that developing artistic expression depends only minimally, if at all, on historical understanding or experience. But that's just a contrary view.

    This isn't to say that familiarity with the history of instruments, their sounds, and capabilities isn't of interest or perhaps of some benefit. And it doesn't mean that you CAN'T use a historical understanding to aid in developing your approach to artistic expression. It's just not at all a rigid requirement. And I think that in particular the French C tuba contributes little, if anything, in this direction.
    Last edited by ghmerrill; 03-01-2018 at 02:45 PM.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •