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Thread: Help Buying a Pro Euphonium?

  1. Help Buying a Pro Euphonium?

    Hi all,

    I'm currently in the market for a compensating euphonium. After looking at the various models, I've narrowed my choices to a Besson BE2052-2 or an Adams horn (though I don't know which one to get). I've looked at some of the other forum posts, but they just made me even more confused. I was initially going to side with the prestige, but I then read a number of reviews against it.

    For the Besson horns:
    1. Is Besson still having production problems? I read somewhere that there was a period where the quality wasn't the best.
    2. Are the current horns' quality consistent?
    3. Do they live up to the hype? They seem to be a horn that a lot of pros play, but is some of it because they're sponsored? (I haven't read a ton of positive reviews from the people on this forum)

    So, I looked into the Adams models and that dug me deeper into the hole of confusion.
    4. Which Adams model is the best, the E3?
    5. Then, which variation?
    6. What exactly are the differences?

    Which of the two are easier to play? I would really like some insight to the specifics

    If you have had both horns, I would really like your input.

    If you don't like Besson or Adams, what do you use?

    I'm currently living in the midwestern US, so there aren't any stores for me to go to to try out these horns. (or I just don't know of any)
    Do any of you know if there are any showrooms with these horns available to try?

    Thank you in advance for all of the input!!

  2. I’m surprised no one has chimed in on this. I’m also curious to the differences in the Adams models. Seems most prefer the E3.

    JJ

  3. #3
    Adams has many options - some info can be found on their website:
    https://www.adams-music.com/shop/pro...&t=wf&lid=1033

    The different materials have different ways of affecting the sound.

    Algirdas does a good job explaining the differences (for him) between the three models
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgIbkQKXtck

    I'm sure there are numerous threads here that explain the differences also.

    E1 was the first Adams Euphonium. Then they made the heavier E2 with a bigger bell. E3 is the newest and appears to be made with more Hirsbrunner tooling and looks pretty much identical to a Hirsbrunner.
    Adams E3 0.6 with SS Bell
    K&G 3.5D
    ---------------------------------
    Founder and Solo Euphonium
    San Francisco Brass Band

  4. #4
    Thanks for "waking" this thread up! I put off commenting before because the questions would require a very long response. Let me try to give some basic answers.

    ALL Adams models share the characteristic of having amazingly good response and really good intonation. They are largely hand-made in the same factory. The all use the same valve-set and have the same bore. The all offer some options for metal thickness and metal composition. And you can customize a great many things, some of which can cost more.

    Brass thickness. The thinnest offered is .50" and has the lightest sound. It feels a bit more responsive in your hands (but that is separate from the response to your air input - I wish I could explain that better). As you get thicker metal you get a little deeper sound, and you get better ability to handle powerful input from the player. The thickest is .80" which sounds very deep; yet it is still quite responsive to input.

    Material. Yellow brass is the smoothest sounding to my ears, and has a pleasing all-around color. There are options of gold brass and red brass, with more copper added respectively. That gives you a little darker sound, but with a little more "zing" as you play it. I suppose I mean a little more character to the tone color. Sterling silver is the most dense of all the offered materials. Adams says, and others seem to agree, that sterling is best suited for experienced players who can "work it" to their needs as they play.

    The following comments assume horns made of the same thickness and of yellow brass.

    E1 was indeed the first model. It has the lightest sound inherently of the three.

    E2 was added for those who like the Willson sound and feel (that's not official). Bracing was changed as was the styling, and therefore the mass, of the valve body.

    E3 is the newest. It looks just like a Hirsbrunner, but when I got a list of specifics, it is actually a new design. But some characteristics of the design make me think it was inspired by Hirsbrunner in places. The shape of the large tubes is the biggest difference from E1/E2, and the larger bell throat enables a bigger sound. While this seems counter-intuitive, I find this model the easiest to play, even on delicate passages.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385
    I would like to make a positive comment in favor of the Besson Prestige 2052, an instrument I bought in 2007, when production had moved to Germany. I love the tipical English sound of this horn and I prefer it compared to other prestigious brands, even though I personal have not had the opportunity to try them all. Feeling the recordings on youtube the sound of the Prestige is that I like best ( personal preference). The construction quality of my horn is excellent, the silvering is still perfect after 11 years, the valves are fluid, smooth and silent and the pit is not bad. Of course the 6th partial ia a bit hih, but ia a feature common to all brasses( Adams euphoniums excluded, according to Mr. Werden's tuning table) and still easily manageable with the trigger, also very well designed and built. In this tread are not many to praise Bessons, prefering mostly Adams and Sterling, but I wanted to give my modest opinion in favor of Besson. After all, if you appreciate the likes of Mead spouses, David Childs, Bastien Baumet, Tormod Flaten ecc. use these instruments should not be just for opportunities but also because the horn is at the top of the category.
    Last edited by franz; 06-17-2018 at 05:11 PM.
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    472
    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    I would like to make a positive comment in favor of the Besson Prestige 2052, an instrument I bought in 2007, when production had moved to Germany. I love the tipical English sound of this horn and I prefer it compared to other prestigious brands, even though I personal have not had the opportunity to try them all. Feeling the recordings on youtube the sound of the Prestige is that I like best ( personal preference). The construction quality of my horn is excellent, the silvering is still perfect after 11 years, the valves are fluid, smooth and silent and the pit is not bad. Of course the 6th partial ia a bit hih, but ia a feature common to all brasses( Adams euphoniums excluded, according to Mr. Werden's tuning table) and still easily manageable with the trigger, also very well designed and built. In this tread are not many to praise Bessons, prefering mostly Adams and Sterling, but I wanted to give my modest opinion in favor of Besson. After all, if you appreciate the likes of Mead spouses, David Childs, Bastien Baumet, Tormod Flaten ecc. use these instruments should not be just for opportunities but also because the horn is at the top of the category.
    Hi Franz.

    Yes the 2052 is a fine professional horn, preferred by many for it's very traditional sound. As far as the 6th partial, almost everyone I've played is more than a bit high. It's nice to have a trigger but to require one is another story. if you look at David's chart, the intonation of the 2051 (not 2052) is inconsistent. There is 20 cents difference between the high G (10 cents sharp) and the next step A (10 cents flat). But for those willing to live with the inherent design quirks, you can't go wrong with the sound. Personally I believe that in 2018 we should not have to live with those quirks.
    Last edited by MichaelSchott; 06-18-2018 at 09:14 PM.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Varese,Italy
    Posts
    385
    I have tried to execute a graphic of intonation of my Prestige 2052 on the indication given by Mr. Werden on the realization oh his graphs and this is the result.
    Note: for G used 3 instead of 1-2 and in my horn the fourth slide has been shortened to improve the pitch on the lower B, that was very very low.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]6124
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails GRAFICO PRESTIGE.jpg  
    2007 Besson Prestige 2052, 3D+ K&G mouthpiece; JP373 baritone, 4B modified K&G mouthpiece; Bach 42GO trombone, T4C K&G mouthpiece; 1973 Besson New Standard 3 compensated valves, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece; Wessex French C tuba, 3D+ K&G modified mouthpiece.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Farmington Hills, MI
    Posts
    472
    Quote Originally Posted by franz View Post
    I have tried to execute a graphic of intonation of my Prestige 2052 on the indication given by Mr. Werden on the realization oh his graphs and this is the result.
    Note: for G used 3 instead of 1-2 and in my horn the fourth slide has been shortened to improve the pitch on the lower B, that was very very low.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]6124
    Thanks Franz. Also, for those in the know, if the 2052 pitch better than that of the 2051?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    Thanks Franz. Also, for those in the know, if the 2052 pitch better than that of the 2051?
    I would expect the pitch of the 967, 968, 2051, and 2052 to be approx. the same with differences between English vs. German manufacture at least as great as individual variation in instrument.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

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