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Thread: Something different - 5G

  1. #1

    Something different - 5G

    Hi everyone,
    I'm currently playing on a (large shank) Bach 5G mouthpiece and would like to try some alternatives to see what kind of sound/s I can get out of horns that I'm demoing. What options would give a brighter sound and what options would give a darker sound? I've seen David's mouthpiece chart on this site and it looks like the 5G has a deep cup. I'm considering a SM3 and/or a 4AL; would those be significantly different than the 5G?

    Greg

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_R View Post
    I've seen David's mouthpiece chart on this site and it looks like the 5G has a deep cup. I'm considering a SM3 and/or a 4AL; would those be significantly different than the 5G?
    Oh, yes. Either would take a bit more chop strength, so you need some time to get used to them. I switched from a 5G in the early 1980's to a 4BL, which was not quite as deep as the 4AL. It gave me a bit darker, more open sound. The 4AL is a bit darker and smoother yet from the 4BL. I prefer either of those to the SM3 myself.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
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  3. #3
    Any recommendations on a mouthpiece for a brighter sound? Something to swing a darker horn towards a Besson-ish sound?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg_R View Post
    Any recommendations on a mouthpiece for a brighter sound? Something to swing a darker horn towards a Besson-ish sound?
    Maybe I'm missing something, but to me a large-bore Besson (especially the 12-inch bell) PERSONIFIES the dark sound.

    That said, a mouthpiece with a shallower cup might yield a slightly brighter sound. Or maybe an American horn, like a King 2280.

    I dunno -- all I know is I've found the sound that's been in my head for years, and that's what the Adams E2 gives me.
    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  5. #5
    Eupher6, I haven't personally tried the Besson yet... I'm just going on my bad memory of previous comments so you're probably right. I'm looking in the <$4k range so Adams is out unless there is a crazy deal out there.

    Thanks for the suggestions r.e. mouthpieces.

  6. If you are generally happy with the rim size of the 5G then you might want to consider the Wick 5ABL. This mouthpiece gets overlooked, I think, because the Wick mouthpiece chart says it is comparable to a Bach 5GS. It is, in my opinion, nothing at all like a 5GS and more like a Wick-style version of a Schilke 51D.

    The 5ABL has a larger rim diameter than the the 51D and appears, to my eye, to be just a bit deeper. Both mouthpieces are significantly deeper than a 5G. Doug Elliott compares both of them to his I cup, while he compares the 5GS to his F cup and a 5G to a G cup. The throats of the 5ABL and 51D are the same. Because the Schilke is more of a cup shape and the Wick more of a funnel, the cup of the Schilke has just a little more overall volume, although it is very close. * To my ear and the ears of some colleagues the Wick has more of a "classic British euphonium" sound while the Schilke has more of a "tenor tuba" sound.

    I would recommend the 5ABL over the Wick 5AL because it gave me significantly improved intonation. I also found this true comparing the 4ABL to the 4AL. The only drawback for me was that the 5AL offered a little more volume on the notes between F below the staff (concert) and pedal Bflat. Also, Peninsula Music has some for sale at an attractive price.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Denis-Wick-...oAAOSw0wRaHM9h

    *This was not high-tech science, but I filled a 51D with water and poured it into a 5ABL. When the Wick was full, the 51D still had about three or four drops of water left. I repeated this several times for consistency and to prove that some days I really have too much time on my hands.

  7. #7
    Thanks Mike. I've always played a 5G large shank and a 6 1/2AL narrow shank (it's what I got handed back in high school).

    Do stores exist where you can demo mouthpieces? I honestly don't know if I'd prefer a smaller, larger, or similarly sized rim.

  8. #8
    5G may be a "deep cup" compared to a 6.5al or a 7c, but it's actually very shallow compared to most euphonium mouthpieces.

    IMO a SM3 would be too big a jump for a young player from a 5G. 4AL may or may not be. I'd increase one parameter at a time, either go larger in the rim or go larger with the cup depth, get used to it, and then go from there. I wouldn't try to do both at once.

    Switching to a 51D or BB1 or one of the SM5 variants would allow you to keep roughly the same rim size but go to a more euphonium-style cup. You could even do a 4.5 of some sort. This would give you a significantly darker sound than you can get with the 5g.
    --
    Barry

  9. #9
    Thanks Barry. I was considering a SM4 or SM5 so I'm glad to hear you suggesting it. Your comment about changing 1 parameter at a time makes sense as well.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    In my mouthpiece journey, I went from a Besson 5 (basically a Bach 7C), to a Schilke 51D and then a Wick 5AL (Still playing on that Wick). I went with the 5AL because I couldn't 'fill' the 4AL at all, the 5AL was a perfect fit for me. However, I did need to get used to the massively different rim shape and the differences in back pressure. Also, because of the differences in the outer shape of the cup, a (Classic) Wick will sound different to an equivalently sized Schilke or Bach, and even the Wick SM and Heritage versions of that same mouthpiece. Be aware of that as well.

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