Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: Very fuzzy high b (concert pitch) on Adams E3

  1. Very fuzzy high b (concert pitch) on Adams E3

    Hi All,

    On my Adams E3 (SS Bell, 0.6) I can play the easiest high C# (concert pitch b) I’ve ever played. On some (almost all) of my previous owned euphoniums this note was almost unplayable. On the Adams is relatively easy to play. I use 2nd valve because the sound is the most open but the sound gets fuzzy. (and more when i want it louder).
    Anyone else with this experience on the E3? Do you use another fingering? Could this be because of the mouthpiece I use? (basically a 4AL with a Warburton BT16 rim)

    Any tips on how to lose some of that fuzz?
    Euphonium: Adams E3 Custom Series (SS Bell)
    Trombone: Benge 175F


  2. #2
    I find that note is the best of any horn I've had as well. But I don't have any complaints about excess fuzz on it. Perhaps it is just a matter of practice and/or getting used to it (because it is so different from previous horns)?

    The other fingering I have used is 123 (or 24), which brings the pitch up slightly. I decide which one to use based on context and convenience.
    [Just corrected a typo above]
    Last edited by davewerden; 02-20-2018 at 08:31 AM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    NYC metro area
    Posts
    523
    I don't understand the problem - not that I haven't experienced it, I have, but I don't understand the physics of it. The pitch C3 is the 9th harmonic of the open horn, and B4 is the 9th harmonic of the horn with the second valve depressed. Why is it so difficult to play, why is the timbre different?

    If I asked a stupid question, please forgive me, I'm really curious.
    Dean L. Surkin
    Mack Brass MACK-EU1150S, BB1 mouthpiece
    Bach 36B trombone; Bach 6.5AL and Faxx 7C mouthpieces (pBone on loan to granddaughter)
    Steinway 1902 Model A, restored by AC Pianocraft in 1988; Kawai MP8, Yamaha KX-76
    See my avatar: Jazz (the black cockapoo; RIP) and Delilah (the cavapoo) keep me company while practicing

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dsurkin View Post
    I don't understand the problem - not that I haven't experienced it, I have, but I don't understand the physics of it. The pitch C3 is the 9th harmonic of the open horn, and B4 is the 9th harmonic of the horn with the second valve depressed. Why is it so difficult to play, why is the timbre different?
    For reasons unknown to me, many compensating euphoniums are really not very happy on the B. My usual experience has been that the C is OK with open, although it is usually flat with 1. In some passages I have used 13 on the C to sharpen it a bit. But on all the horns I've owned that C is what most would call a usable note.

    Then we have the B. Same partial, as you said. For whatever reason, it is not as solid as the C. My normal fingering is 2. I don't think 12 is so much a pitch problem as a response / centering problem. Very few people have good luck using the "normal" 12 fingering on that note, and few people find it comfortable with any fingering.

    I wrote an arrangement of Schumann's Romance No. 2 many years ago. I've performed it a couple times in the distant past. Near the end there is a B natural at the end of a line (which is not too hard), followed by a breath, and then another B at a soft dynamic. The 2nd B is darned hard on most horns. On my newest Adams E1 or on my current E3, the B is much better and I'm comfortable with that entrance. Here is a recording with my E1:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxu1VA48a1w

    The B is around 3:18. (Along the same lines, it is preceded by a C# and C, which I play with the alternate fingerings 23 and 13 in this context)

    I know owners of the Miraphone 5050 have said it is very good on the B, so it is not every horn.

    May we assume from your comments that your B on the Mack is comfortable and in tune? This is such a common issue that I almost think I should start a list of horns with good high B's!

    The other really bad note is high D. Even some of the best players in the world complain about that one, and have resorted to using 2nd valve to play it (which, in theory, is a quarter step high).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Summerfield, Florida Sturgis, SD (summers)
    Posts
    1,870
    My Miraphone M5050 played the high B natural better than any other euphonium I have ever owned or tried, period. Most of my horns were dreadful on that note, namely all of my Besson euphoniums and my Yamaha 842. My Adams E3 plays the note pretty darn good. I played the Curnow Rhapsody for Euphonium last summer, and it ends on a high B natural. The Adams (and me) nailed it. No fuzz that I could tell. I will admit that this note is not 100% quite like the notes around it, just off a wee, tiny bit, but not very much. I agree with Dave, you just might have to work with that note a bit. Try playing scales and arpeggios and slurs that end on or include that note and make it sound like the other notes as you play. Try different valve positions. That note is one you have to feel, in my opinion. Especially after the fact that it sounds so lousy on most euphoniums and is almost impossible to play on some.

    As for why the high B natural is a problem note (from Dean's question above):

    Then all I've got to say
    God didn't make little green apples
    And it don't snow in Minneapolis when the winter comes
    And there's no such thing as high B naturals
    On most euphoniums

    In other words, beats me!! Must be some science behind it one would think.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •