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Thread: Schilke 51D does not fit Yamaha 842

  1. #1

    Schilke 51D does not fit Yamaha 842

    After several years on the Yamaha 321 with a Schilke 51D, I bought an 842 and ordered the 51D large shank. It does not "seat" but falls out. (Same thing with a 60, sent to me in error.) Is this a Schilke design problem? If so, what do you recommend that is a close match? DW 4AL? Anything else? Thanks.

  2. #2
    That seems odd that you are having troubles with the mouthpiece sitting correctly, especially that both Yamaha and Schilke are highly reputable brands. It may be best to try some other large shank mouthpieces (if you have any laying around or if you know of anyone that plays euphonium and has some mouthpieces you can try). In terms of feel, a Bach 5G or Yamaha 51D would be the closest fit. Denis Wick mouthpieces are slightly different in feel and design to Schilke/Bach.

  3. #3
    The problem could be the receiver rather than the mouthpiece. I bought a very used King 2280 a year ago, and none of the 4 large shank mouthpieces I tried with it seated properly without a small wrap of tape on the shank. I eventually took it to a technician who is replacing what appears to be a non-standard leadpipe and receiver.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jdbyrd View Post
    After several years on the Yamaha 321 with a Schilke 51D, I bought an 842 and ordered the 51D large shank. It does not "seat" but falls out. (Same thing with a 60, sent to me in error.) Is this a Schilke design problem? If so, what do you recommend that is a close match? DW 4AL? Anything else? Thanks.
    My guess is that the horn was gapped for a mouthpiece with a very short shank. A visit to a tech would be in order. Depending on how well the work was done originally, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to fix.
    Adrian L. Quince
    Composer, Conductor, Euphoniumist
    www.adrianquince.com

    Kanstul 976 - SM4U

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central North Carolina
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    If the receiver is slightly out of round (which is often quite difficult to see), a mouthpiece will not fit correctly. I had that problem with my Schiller bass trombone, but since I wanted to replace the original lead pipe anyway, it was quickly solved.

    If you bought the instrument new, it should be covered under warranty. If not, it's not expensive to replace the receiver.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    One other thing to try -- if you haven't already ...

    If this horn was used for some time before you got it, it's possible that there is some built-up crud in the receiver. Clean the receiver thoroughly -- and repeated a number of times -- with a good nylon brush, hot water, and detergent and/or degreaser (I use 409). If the previous owner (assuming there was one) was not fastidious about cleaning his instrument, there could be substantial crud built up in the receiver so that HIS mouthpiece shank continued to fit it, but others may not.

    This was a problem with my 1924 Eb tuba when I got it. Just couldn't find a shank that would go into it appropriately. I'd cleaned it a couple of times, but then discovered that as I tried to set the mouthpiece better I would get a tiny bit of difference by twisting it and applying some force. Then I hit it hard with the brush/detergent/409 and about five repeated cleanings, and my bass trombone shanks fit it. So did a "small European" tuba shank -- which is actually the size the receiver was built to. But the amount of encrusted hard crud in the receiver (probably built up over 90 years or so) was astonishing.

    A lot of people just never clean their equipment -- or don't clean it often enough. Worth a try.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (Denis Wick 3XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba, modified Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K9/112 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #7

    Thanks for the ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by adrian_quince View Post
    My guess is that the horn was gapped for a mouthpiece with a very short shank. A visit to a tech would be in order. Depending on how well the work was done originally, it shouldn't be too big of a deal to fix.
    Thanks for the quick responses. Will share my solution when I find it.

  8. I haven't read all of the replies, but back in the day I traded a bass trombone player my 51 d for his 51 d. Same mouthpieces, same label. one was manufactured as a bass trombone mouthpiece, and the other just the standard (tenor or euph). The shanks were different lengths. I was playing on an 842 at the time and it fixed my problem. Maybe you have a 'bass trombone' Schilke 51D. No idea why they did that.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by XtremeEuph View Post
    I haven't read all of the replies, but back in the day I traded a bass trombone player my 51 d for his 51 d. Same mouthpieces, same label. one was manufactured as a bass trombone mouthpiece, and the other just the standard (tenor or euph). The shanks were different lengths. I was playing on an 842 at the time and it fixed my problem. Maybe you have a 'bass trombone' Schilke 51D. No idea why they did that.
    I think what you're describing is older Schilke trombone mouthpieces had a longer shank then what they currently make. It was a dual taper to fit Conn trombones (88h, 8H, bass trombones) which used a "Brown & Sharpe" taper. I don't know how they did it but they also fit the more common "Morse" taper like Bach trombones and other manufacturers. It's possible that longer shank didn't fit your 842 and the shorter shank was a better fit.

    Large shank bass trombone & tenor trombone mouthpieces had the same shank it was just that they were made to accommodate the taper on large bore Conn trombones. Conn quit using that taper sometime in the 1990's (I think) and Schilke discontinued the long Shank around the same time or early 2000's (maybe someone knows the exact dates)

  10. #10
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    Rochester NY, USA
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    If it's loose enough that it's falling out could it be possible they sent you a Medium or Euro shank mouthpiece by mistake? Schilke makes that mouthpiece in all 3 shank sizes. If you know someone with a large bore trombone, or another Euphonium player with a large shank receiver I would compare the shank on their mouthpiece to yours to see if they are the same.

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