Any Pros play the Schilke 51D?

[jearnhart]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any pros that play on the 51D?

[davewerden]

It's hard to keep track because people keep changing mouthpieces! But I'd be willing to be that many of Brian Bowman's students who are now pros use the 51D.

[bbocaner]

Last time I saw him, Hiram Diaz in the Marine Band was playing a 51D. He checks in on the forum here once in a while.

[highpitch]

A 51D works pretty well on a Willson 2950 in my opinion.

Not so much on a Besson.

DG

[euphdude]

When I saw Don Palmire at the Army conference a couple of years before he retired, he was still playing a large shank 51D on his Yamaha 842/642. He has since switched to Jupiter and now Adams, but I don't know if he has switched mouthpieces.

On a related note about large shank Schilke 51Ds, I'm curious to see if anyone has ever done a back to back of the old 51D with the hybrid Bach/Remington taper and the current ones using the more traditional Bach style. I would be surprised if there wasn't some difference. I happened to see one of the newer ones (didn't play it) in a box of mpcs at Chuck Levins. The end of the shank had an obvious "flare" at the very tip. It almost seemed like they kept the original taper and then flared it quickly at the end so the shorter shank would work. I'm no mouthpiece design expert, but at first glance, this fix seemed somewhat crude. Perhaps this was the only way to minimize the differences when changing the shank profile. I looked at a couple of other newer large shank Schilkes, and they all had this obvious flare.

[mbrooke]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any pros that play on the 51D?

Roger Behrend used a 51D for his entire career with the Navy Band. His son Bobby, who is now in the Navy Band, uses a 51D. Brandon Jones said he won a seat in the Air Force Band using a 51D. Jennifer Cox in the Air Force band uses (or at least used to use) a 51D.

Mike

[jkircoff]

There's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.

[daruby]

There's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.

Not a bad general impression. I would add that the American sound is more frequently a Schilke 51D or BB1 med shank with a Willson 2900 as opposed to the larger 2950 or 2960.

[jkircoff]

Not a bad general impression. I would add that the American sound is more frequently a Schilke 51D or BB1 med shank with a Willson 2900 as opposed to the larger 2950 or 2960.

Thanks Doug. I play a Sterling Virtuoso with a SM3X in a band with someone who plays a Willson 2900 with a Schilke 51D. We definitely produce different sounds...never mind the intonation quirks between the two horns I'm constantly battling!

[booboo]

There's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.

I think you may be right, but I'd say that certainly up to about 25 years ago the divide in equipment choice and concept of euph sound on either side of the atlantic was much more evident. I think maybe thanks to 40 yrs of itea conferences and now youtube we are all exposed to different playing cultures a bit more. Certainly if you listen to the top british globe trotting soloists now you can hear a more modern and 'transatlantic' approach compared to the top british players of the 60's/70's who were very much brass band soloists. I'm sure if you got Steve Mead, David Childs or David Thornton to play a Wilson and a 51D they wouldn't sound so different to when they use their Bessons/Stirlings and Wick mp's. Likewise, Mr Bowman would likely still be recognisable on a Besson/Wick combo.

[adrian_quince]

I think you may be right, but I'd say that certainly up to about 25 years ago the divide in equipment choice and concept of euph sound on either side of the atlantic was much more evident. I think maybe thanks to 40 yrs of itea conferences and now youtube we are all exposed to different playing cultures a bit more. Certainly if you listen to the top british globe trotting soloists now you can hear a more modern and 'transatlantic' approach compared to the top british players of the 60's/70's who were very much brass band soloists. I'm sure if you got Steve Mead, David Childs or David Thornton to play a Wilson and a 51D they wouldn't sound so different to when they use their Bessons/Stirlings and Wick mp's. Likewise, Mr Bowman would likely still be recognisable on a Besson/Wick combo.

In my experience, a brass player with a firm concept of their own tone and style will sound like themselves regardless of the equipment. The player will adapt to the equipment and their ear will reign supreme.

Different equipment will make some things harder and some things easier. Matching equipment to sound concept is less about making a certain sound possible and more about making it easy.

That said, Steve Mead and his line of Ultra mouthpieces for Wick seem to be creating a sound that is neither traditionally British nor American. I'm not sure I'd call it "Transatlantic", but that may be as good a word as any. The design of the Ultra sacrifices some warmth and breadth for focus and clarity.

For me personally, it works very well as a daily driver piece (doing an even split between American wind ensemble literature and German blaskapelle music). If I were playing with a brass band and were expected to play with a British accent, I'd probably switch to a classic Mead or a regular Wick 4AL. Finding the traditional brass band tone on an Ultra would be a challenge. That said, with a brass band, I probably wouldn't be playing the Kanstul either. The horn favors an American sound and approach to playing. None of this is to say that I couldn't in a pinch. It'd just be more work.

[MichaelSchott]

There's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.

Correct for the most part. I come from a concert band background but have played on a 2900S in Brass Bands for almost 23 years now. I switched from a 51D to first a Wick SM4M many years ago and for the last 3-4 a SM4MX. By the way I have no interest in a Prestige due to the quirky intonation. If I switch it will likely be to an Adams E3.

[booboo]

I'm agreeing with both of you I think, but I believe the concert band/brass band background is a greater influence on the concept of sound than the Besson/willson or wick/schilke choice. I've had extended periods of time doing my thing in brass bands and concert bands, but my equipment choice has remained pretty constant while my approach/ concept of sound has changed to suit. Might just be me, ymmv.

[BrandonJones]

In my experiences with my own playing, I generally will tend to sound like "me" on most any combination that I try. I usually go with what "feels" the best to me and allows me to feel like I'm able to produce what's in my head the easiest. There are things that I have always loved about a 51D/BB1 mouthpiece set-up, as well as things that I hate about it. The Willson/51D/BB1 set-up is used by a lot of my fellow colleagues in the DC military bands... and not just because Dr. Bowman uses it. It produces a specific type of feel and slotting on that particular set-up is quite remarkable. The tone is very focused and pitch is very easy to maintain center. I do know of some players that use that set-up that will tell you that it isn't the most "comfortable" set-up, but they ultimately stick with it because of the previous statement. I've heard a good friend of mine, Hiram Diaz, play on large equipment and now on the Willson 2900 and I believe a 51D. He sounds great regardless, but for him, I strongly prefer his playing on the 51D set-up, even though he definitely has the power to play larger equipment. It's all up to the particular player, their air usage, what they have in their head, and ultimately what is most comfortable.

[booboo]

I think you are absolutely spot on with the feel, comfort, and the concept in your head. None of the equipment choices we are discussing are that far apart and it ultimately comes down to the 'man behind the gun' I think.