Just out of curiousity, does anyone know any pros that play on the 51D?
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Any Pros play the Schilke 51D?
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It's hard to keep track because people keep changing mouthpieces! But I'd be willing to be that many of Brian Bowman's students who are now pros use the 51D.Dave Werden (ASCAP)
Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
Adams Artist (Adams E3)
Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
YouTube: dwerden
Facebook: davewerden
Twitter: davewerden
Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
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When I saw Don Palmire at the Army conference a couple of years before he retired, he was still playing a large shank 51D on his Yamaha 842/642. He has since switched to Jupiter and now Adams, but I don't know if he has switched mouthpieces.
On a related note about large shank Schilke 51Ds, I'm curious to see if anyone has ever done a back to back of the old 51D with the hybrid Bach/Remington taper and the current ones using the more traditional Bach style. I would be surprised if there wasn't some difference. I happened to see one of the newer ones (didn't play it) in a box of mpcs at Chuck Levins. The end of the shank had an obvious "flare" at the very tip. It almost seemed like they kept the original taper and then flared it quickly at the end so the shorter shank would work. I'm no mouthpiece design expert, but at first glance, this fix seemed somewhat crude. Perhaps this was the only way to minimize the differences when changing the shank profile. I looked at a couple of other newer large shank Schilkes, and they all had this obvious flare.- Scott
Euphoniums: Dillon 967, Monzani MZEP-1150S, Dillon 1067 (kid’s horn)
Bass Trombones: Greenhoe GB5-3G, Getzen 1052FDR, JP232
King Jiggs P-bone
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Originally posted by jearnhart View PostJust out of curiousity, does anyone know any pros that play on the 51D?
Mike
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There's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.James Kircoff
Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ K&G 3.5)
Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY)
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Originally posted by jkircoff View PostThere's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
Concord Band
Winchendon Winds
Townsend Military Band
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Originally posted by daruby View PostNot a bad general impression. I would add that the American sound is more frequently a Schilke 51D or BB1 med shank with a Willson 2900 as opposed to the larger 2950 or 2960.James Kircoff
Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ K&G 3.5)
Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY)
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Originally posted by jkircoff View PostThere's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.
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Originally posted by booboo View PostI think you may be right, but I'd say that certainly up to about 25 years ago the divide in equipment choice and concept of euph sound on either side of the atlantic was much more evident. I think maybe thanks to 40 yrs of itea conferences and now youtube we are all exposed to different playing cultures a bit more. Certainly if you listen to the top british globe trotting soloists now you can hear a more modern and 'transatlantic' approach compared to the top british players of the 60's/70's who were very much brass band soloists. I'm sure if you got Steve Mead, David Childs or David Thornton to play a Wilson and a 51D they wouldn't sound so different to when they use their Bessons/Stirlings and Wick mp's. Likewise, Mr Bowman would likely still be recognisable on a Besson/Wick combo.
Different equipment will make some things harder and some things easier. Matching equipment to sound concept is less about making a certain sound possible and more about making it easy.
That said, Steve Mead and his line of Ultra mouthpieces for Wick seem to be creating a sound that is neither traditionally British nor American. I'm not sure I'd call it "Transatlantic", but that may be as good a word as any. The design of the Ultra sacrifices some warmth and breadth for focus and clarity.
For me personally, it works very well as a daily driver piece (doing an even split between American wind ensemble literature and German blaskapelle music). If I were playing with a brass band and were expected to play with a British accent, I'd probably switch to a classic Mead or a regular Wick 4AL. Finding the traditional brass band tone on an Ultra would be a challenge. That said, with a brass band, I probably wouldn't be playing the Kanstul either. The horn favors an American sound and approach to playing. None of this is to say that I couldn't in a pinch. It'd just be more work.
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Originally posted by jkircoff View PostThere's a general impression I'm under that people looking for an "American" sound use Schilke 51Ds with Willsons, and people looking for a "British" sound use Denis Wicks with Bessons.
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I'm agreeing with both of you I think, but I believe the concert band/brass band background is a greater influence on the concept of sound than the Besson/willson or wick/schilke choice. I've had extended periods of time doing my thing in brass bands and concert bands, but my equipment choice has remained pretty constant while my approach/ concept of sound has changed to suit. Might just be me, ymmv.
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In my experiences with my own playing, I generally will tend to sound like "me" on most any combination that I try. I usually go with what "feels" the best to me and allows me to feel like I'm able to produce what's in my head the easiest. There are things that I have always loved about a 51D/BB1 mouthpiece set-up, as well as things that I hate about it. The Willson/51D/BB1 set-up is used by a lot of my fellow colleagues in the DC military bands... and not just because Dr. Bowman uses it. It produces a specific type of feel and slotting on that particular set-up is quite remarkable. The tone is very focused and pitch is very easy to maintain center. I do know of some players that use that set-up that will tell you that it isn't the most "comfortable" set-up, but they ultimately stick with it because of the previous statement. I've heard a good friend of mine, Hiram Diaz, play on large equipment and now on the Willson 2900 and I believe a 51D. He sounds great regardless, but for him, I strongly prefer his playing on the 51D set-up, even though he definitely has the power to play larger equipment. It's all up to the particular player, their air usage, what they have in their head, and ultimately what is most comfortable.Brandon Jones
Principal Euphonium - The United States Air Force Band, Washington, D.C.
bmjones82@gmail.com
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