Water Catchers

[euphdude]

Hey Folks - I wanted to poll the forum to see how folks actually use water catchers/grime gutters on their instruments. Do you leave them on your instrument all the time, or do you install them and remove them as needed? I've only had a couple of instruments where I actually used one, 2 Yamahas and one large shank Willson 2900. One was included with the Yamaha 842 and Willson and I bought one aftermarket for the 642. When I had these, I always assumed that you leave it on the instrument all the time and only take it off for cleaning, etc. I did notice that even when I removed it every 3-4 months ago to perform a thorough cleaning that there was always a large amount of crud and mildew buildup in the gutter and on any absorbent material that may have been present...as I'm always very careful about cleanliness in general when it comes to my horns, I think a good bit of the build up was some sort of biofilm (e.g., mildew). I always found it fairly disgusting and a pain in the neck to clean!

Fast forward to last August when I took delivery of a great 2017 Schiller. This horn didn't come with a water catcher, but my 2015 Wessex that I got rid of last year did, and I forgot to include it with the deal....Wessex forgot to include it when I bought that a couple years back, and I asked about it, and they sent me one....and I never bothered to install it before selling it. So, I put this one that I already had on the Schiller, and it fit perfectly fine. This one had a different design than the Yamahas I was so familiar with. See attached. The Wessex has a center spring loaded mechanism whereas the Yamaha/Willson were just hollow tubes that snap into place (I think these are more effective designs quite frankly). Moreover there was very limited room for any absorbent material...and I remember the YEP-842's water catcher was closed off on either end and I never used any absorbent material there, so at the time I made the unwise decision to just install it on my Schiller. I've been playing a ton since early August and have been very liberally oiling the valves. But yesterday just prior to the concert, I stood the instrument on its bell for less than a minute...I don't typically do this, but I needed to organize the music, etc. When I looked down, I noticed the huge puddle of water/oil/slime mixture all over my bell and main branch....YUCK! In retrospect, I should have included some absorbent material, but the YEP-842 grime gutter seemed to seal well even with no absorbent material....not so with this Wessex!

So I'm curious to see what you guys do....do you leave it on all the time or just when you will be wearing pants etc that might stain, etc? Since I wear jeans during rehearsal and our outdoor attire includes shorts, and our formal concert attire requires black pants, my reaction to all of this moving forward is to forgo using it unless I wear khaki slacks, etc....which almost never happens. As of now I've come to the conclusion that the juice isn't worth the squeeze...I typically wipe down my horn after playing it anyway so there is no build up of any water/oil on my horn...and no mildew/biofilm to deal with either. My plan now is to leave the catcher off the horn unless I wear something that might stain...and even in that case immediately take it off when done.

[davewerden]

I've never owned a euphonium that did not drip from the bottom of the valves to some extent, so I have tended to keep my gutter on. My Adams gutter looks like your photo, I think.

Because I NEVER put my horn on its bell, I have not had a problem with draining onto the horn. And on my Adams I get very little build up in the gutter anyway. Most times it is not worth the trouble to empty it.

On some of my other horns (and perhaps on my Adams as it ages) I got more dripping. In that case I may need to empty more often.

The design on mine and yours is not especially easy to remove. It is simple, but takes some hand strength if you want to do it quietly because the spring is fairly strong. (But the spring seems to keep it from rattling or buzzing, so it's probably necessary to have it be that stiff.)

Previously I have used a straight plastic tube where I cut a slot and sealed both ends. That was quicker to remove and replace and did not rattle.

[daruby]

While my 2009 Sterling did not come with a drip gutter, it was one of the first accessories I purchased after receiving the horn. Initially, it almost never collected water because the Bauerfeind valves (same as new Adams) were so tight. Now that the horn is 8 years old and has countless hours of playing, the valves do drip some though still less than my 2007 Besson Prestige did. I must admit that the valves on my 2009 Sterling are MUCH faster than when new, just not as tight.

[euphdude]

Hey Guys thanks for the responses. A couple of comments

I've never owned a euphonium that did not drip from the bottom of the valves to some extent, so I have tended to keep my gutter on.

I have exactly the same experience, but of all of the horns I've owned/tried out only a couple of them had the gutters included or I purchased aftermarket. The other horns (Besson Prestige, Sterling, Yamaha Neo, etc.) didn't include a gutter and I never purchased one. I've never performed in a situation on euphonium (not the case when I played trombone in a quintet) where I wore clothing that would have been stained by the droppings. And a quick wipe down after playing is all that is needed to clean up any droppings on the horn.

Because I NEVER put my horn on its bell, I have not had a problem with draining onto the horn. And on my Adams I get very little build up in the gutter anyway.

I almost never put the horn on its bell, and will only typically do it as a last resort when there is no soft surface to set the instrument on while on stage, etc. I might do it 2-3 times per year. I clearly wasn't expecting the surprise I got yesterday! As mentioned previously, the gold plated Yamaha 842 gutter is closed off on both ends whereas the aftermarket gutter I bought for the 642 had removable caps on both ends. I put in a small amount of cotton ball material on the 642 gutter and I didn't put anything in the 842 gutter...and never had any leakage!

After this incident I don't think I'm going to use the gutter unless I'm wearing something where stains will show. For a good part of the time I've played euphonium I haven't used one at all and wiping down the horn takes care of the issue. I'm a little surprised that I'm the only one who has noticed substantial mildew, etc. build up over just a few months period. When you think it about it, it makes perfect sense...water pooling and a relatively closed off system with little ventilation makes an ideal breeding ground!

One last question to those of you who do use gutters....do you use one on your 4th valve? Of the horns I've owned, only the Willson had a nipple on the 4th valve cap and they included a gutter on the 4th valve. Every other horn I've seen has no nipple on the 4th valve cap, and consequently I never used one there either.

[EuphGuy]

Hey Folks - I wanted to poll the forum to see how folks actually use water catchers/grime gutters on their instruments. Do you leave them on your instrument all the time, or do you install them and remove them as needed? I've only had a couple of instruments where I actually used one, 2 Yamahas and one large shank Willson 2900. One was included with the Yamaha 842 and Willson and I bought one aftermarket for the 642. When I had these, I always assumed that you leave it on the instrument all the time and only take it off for cleaning, etc. I did notice that even when I removed it every 3-4 months ago to perform a thorough cleaning that there was always a large amount of crud and mildew buildup in the gutter and on any absorbent material that may have been present...as I'm always very careful about cleanliness in general when it comes to my horns, I think a good bit of the build up was some sort of biofilm (e.g., mildew). I always found it fairly disgusting and a pain in the neck to clean!

Fast forward to last August when I took delivery of a great 2017 Schiller. This horn didn't come with a water catcher, but my 2015 Wessex that I got rid of last year did, and I forgot to include it with the deal....Wessex forgot to include it when I bought that a couple years back, and I asked about it, and they sent me one....and I never bothered to install it before selling it. So, I put this one that I already had on the Schiller, and it fit perfectly fine. This one had a different design than the Yamahas I was so familiar with. See attached. The Wessex has a center spring loaded mechanism whereas the Yamaha/Willson were just hollow tubes that snap into place (I think these are more effective designs quite frankly). Moreover there was very limited room for any absorbent material...and I remember the YEP-842's water catcher was closed off on either end and I never used any absorbent material there, so at the time I made the unwise decision to just install it on my Schiller. I've been playing a ton since early August and have been very liberally oiling the valves. But yesterday just prior to the concert, I stood the instrument on its bell for less than a minute...I don't typically do this, but I needed to organize the music, etc. When I looked down, I noticed the huge puddle of water/oil/slime mixture all over my bell and main branch....YUCK! In retrospect, I should have included some absorbent material, but the YEP-842 grime gutter seemed to seal well even with no absorbent material....not so with this Wessex!

So I'm curious to see what you guys do....do you leave it on all the time or just when you will be wearing pants etc that might stain, etc? Since I wear jeans during rehearsal and our outdoor attire includes shorts, and our formal concert attire requires black pants, my reaction to all of this moving forward is to forgo using it unless I wear khaki slacks, etc....which almost never happens. As of now I've come to the conclusion that the juice isn't worth the squeeze...I typically wipe down my horn after playing it anyway so there is no build up of any water/oil on my horn...and no mildew/biofilm to deal with either. My plan now is to leave the catcher off the horn unless I wear something that might stain...and even in that case immediately take it off when done.

I have the exact same gutter that you show here and used it on my Mack. That particular horn didn't drip very much, so I didn't have the issue you have when turning the horn upside down. The horn didn't really need the gutter IMO. When I got rid of the Mack, I kept the gutter to put on my Hirsbrunner. No go....the fourth valve tubing on that horn won't allow a gutter of this type....and go figure, the Hirsbrunner drips constantly. : (

I think I've seen where folks insert pieces of wick (the type/size for a tiki torch) into the gutter to help hold water. Maybe try that? Looking at the gutter that I have, you'd probably be able to either slip it into the holes of the gutter or pry off one end?

As for the fourth valve....I have never had a gutter, nor have I ever felt I needed one.

[davewerden]

I can't imagine the 4th valve gutter would be very useful. I don't think most players ever hold their horns, at rest or during play, so that the bottom of that valve is horizontal.

BTW, I have gotten into the habit of putting a cloth on my left leg. If I don't have my gutter on that would help, but also it catches any moisture that might seep or might drip off the water key(s). I went to Target and bought a couple colors of cloth napkins for the purpose. They are absorbent enough to do the job, and I have a choice of black or blue to match my wardrobe!

[davewerden]

Ooo ooo ooo! I just thought...

Denis Wick should sell the cotton fillers for the gutters. They could call them the Wick Wick.

[DaveBj]

My Schiller-stamped Jinbao euph and my straight-from-the-factory Jinbao bari both drip like my nose in allergy season, so i have the black plastic grime gutters on both of them. I leave them on all the time, but I do pull them and squeeze the water out after a long playing season. Dittos on seldom putting the horn on the bell.

[euphdude]

Ooo ooo ooo! I just thought...

Denis Wick should sell the cotton fillers for the gutters. They could call them the Wick Wick.

Great one Dave! LOL

[graeme]

I leave mygutter on my Prestige and empty it after each playing session however that doesn’tstop me getting wet as I get water dripping from the tuning slide. I guess theycannot be machined to tight as they need to move in response to the trigger.