SE Shires Euphonium

[davewerden]

I had a recent conversation with the solo euphonium player of a top UK band, one of the most famous ones that's been around since the 19th century, who volunteered to me (without knowing that I played an Adams) that he had tried Adams and was very impressed, and that he would absolutely consider playing one if they'd give him one like Besson did. (!!)

Thanks for sharing! As I have said, there are various reasons why a "XYZ Artist" may play that brand.

I can't recall the specifics, but during my CG Band years I learned there was a famous XYZ Artist whose face appeared in XYZ print ads regularly. But many people in the profession had heard him say that he doesn't use XYZ for anything, but he lets XYZ pay him and use his photo in ads.

[Simes]

I had a recent conversation with the solo euphonium player of a top UK band, one of the most famous ones that's been around since the 19th century, who volunteered to me (without knowing that I played an Adams) that he had tried Adams and was very impressed, and that he would absolutely consider playing one if they'd give him one like Besson did. (!!)

It may have been said in jest, but that attitude sums up everything that is wrong with top level brass banding in the UK.

These players make a living out of pastime that the rest of us pay to enjoy, and yet have the temerity to complain when they don’t get things for free.

[bbocaner]

Honestly I don't think that's the case. I believe he was implying he didn't have 6000GBP to spend on a new instrument, not that he would only play an instrument from a manufacturer who gave him free stuff.

[Simes]

Ah yes. Well I drive a VW, but I’d love a Porsche, if they’d give me one for nothing.

The most concerning thing for me about the Adams euphonium is that there are no brass band specialist shops (Norman’s, Band Supplies, Trevada etc) prepared to sell them (they will supply the percussion if they absolutely must). I’m guessing that the discount efficient dealers get from Besson is a pretty big incentive for pushing one brand over another, and I’d also guess that Adams don’t want to discount (a good product doesn’t need it).

I’d love a go on one, because it’s probably the only brand I’ve not tried. There is one for sale on EBay at the moment at a not unreasonable price.

[MichaelSchott]

Ah yes. Well I drive a VW, but I’d love a Porsche, if they’d give me one for nothing.

The most concerning thing for me about the Adams euphonium is that there are no brass band specialist shops (Norman’s, Band Supplies, Trevada etc) prepared to sell them (they will supply the percussion if they absolutely must). I’m guessing that the discount efficient dealers get from Besson is a pretty big incentive for pushing one brand over another, and I’d also guess that Adams don’t want to discount (a good product doesn’t need it).

I’d love a go on one, because it’s probably the only brand I’ve not tried. There is one for sale on EBay at the moment at a not unreasonable price.

It could also be that the dealers don't want to jeopardize their Besson franchises by picking up Adams euphoniums. Besson has been the standard for 100 years or so and they are heavily established as the go to horn in Great Britain and much of the world. Last, I don't think Adams has the production capacity of Besson, probably not even close.

[bbocaner]

Besson sponsors most of the big contests and most of the famous bands, too.

I like modern Besson instruments a lot. I think the response and slotting is top notch. The intonation could be much better, but it's manageable and an OK trade-off considering I like the sound a lot. I'd probably still be playing their euphonium if the US distributors weren't completely incompetent and incapable of providing a reasonable level of customer service. (Not their baritone, though, the Yamaha Neo is just so much better!!)

That said, I think a properly equipped Adams E3 sounds more like a classic round-stamp sovereign than a new Besson does.

[djwpe]

Besson sponsors most of the big contests and most of the famous bands, too.

I like modern Besson instruments a lot. I think the response and slotting is top notch. The intonation could be much better, but it's manageable and an OK trade-off considering I like the sound a lot. I'd probably still be playing their euphonium if the US distributors weren't completely incompetent and incapable of providing a reasonable level of customer service. (Not their baritone, though, the Yamaha Neo is just so much better!!)

That said, I think a properly equipped Adams E3 sounds more like a classic round-stamp sovereign than a new Besson does.

I think the Besson Prestige is a great instrument if you want to sound like Steve Mead. The only player I’ve heard who doesn’t sound like Steve on a prestige is Dave Childs. FFS even Rolan Froescher gets that diffuse pillowy sound on the prestige.

Don Winston

[Simes]

I think the Besson Prestige is a great instrument if you want to sound like Steve Mead. The only player I’ve heard who doesn’t sound like Steve on a prestige is Dave Childs. FFS even Rolan Froescher gets that diffuse pillowy sound on the prestige.



Don Winston

I entirely agree. It gets even worse when people buy into the whole SM mouthpiece propaganda, also look at the number of top level British players who’ve studied with Steven Mead.

It’s why, after having had three German Prestige euphoniums (all riddled with issues), I will never own anything other than a Globe Sovereign, or a Yamaha Neo, or if my numbers come up, an Adams.

[Simes]

It could also be that the dealers don't want to jeopardize their Besson franchises by picking up Adams euphoniums. Besson has been the standard for 100 years or so and they are heavily established as the go to horn in Great Britain and much of the world. Last, I don't think Adams has the production capacity of Besson, probably not even close.

Indeed, but given the increase in decent competition, shops nailing their colours to a single mast is shortsighted at best. Having worked in the trade, at one of the best specialist brass dealers, having a selection makes the customer’s “experience” a better one. I don’t want to potentially replace my B&H hooter with a Besson one. I’d consider Yamaha. I don’t want a Geneva, or a Sterling, but I would want an Adams to trial at least. I can’t think of a shop that would allow me to test even that selection.

There is a market for bespoke instrument especially when the Prestige is so colossally overpriced. If the Adams was 30% more than a Besson I’d get it, but what will be stopping them will be trade prices the shops seem not “good enough”.

[Snorlax]

At ITEC, there were TWO Shires models. One with the tweener receiver and the other with a large receiver. According to the rep, the instruments differed in other aspects as well.
Having tried both of them, I was unmoved. Of course, that's a personal matter, but I heard/felt no distinguishing characteristic that would be salient in a purchase decision--other than the NAME.

There does indeed seem to be a large supply of top-line instruments available, and I wonder how much ACTUAL difference there is that could be discerned by players (In marketing speak, salient attributes/benefits). Most of the product differentiation is accomplished by psychological factors, the most important of which may well be who the endorsers are. This follows a similar marketing pattern used by sporting goods manufacturers. The endorsers are "aspirational referents" whose behavior buyers strive to emulate through purchase of a euphonium, tennis racquet, or set of golf clubs.

[razorbacks1898]

I actually thought the large shank variant of the new Shires horn was pretty good. I liked it better than a few of the current “professional” euphoniums on display at ITEC, fwiw.

[adrian_quince]

There does indeed seem to be a large supply of top-line instruments available, and I wonder how much ACTUAL difference there is that could be discerned by players

I've got a perspective on that, if folks don't mind a diversion into trumpet land for a little bit...

Having just gone trumpet shopping not long ago, I did find that it was pretty easy to distinguish between the different top of the line horns from different makers, except for one. It seemed that each had a different concept behind how the horn was designed and how it should respond. The Bachs were their stuffy selves with the attendant tuning quirks and finicky valves, but still producing that classic Bach sound. The Yamahas were crisp, clean, and consistent, but lacked color for me. The Getzen and Edwards horns both provided thick powerful sounds that took a lot of air to drive. The Schilkes were wonderfully responsive and one was a very close runner up.

Then, there were the Adams horns. After making the mistake of buying a euphonium a few years back without trying an Adams, I was determined to make sure I got some playing time on one this time. The dealer that I was trying them at had a few different selected configurations in stock. In terms of playing feel and tonal palette, the ones that I tried offered a huge variety of options. In my time with the instruments, I didn't find an "Adams sound" in the same way I found a "Bach sound" or a "Getzen sound" (the latter being one I'm quite fond of having played a Getzen for almost 20 years). What set them apart was the responsiveness and the tuning. Across the different instruments, there was definitely an "Adams feel" that completely won me over. I don't know what kind of acoustic dark arts Miel Adams practices to tame the 6th partial, but wow is it nice to have those notes just be in tune.

Needless to say, I went home with an Adams. Not only that, the Adams flugelhorn was hands down the best I've ever played, so I ended up finally buying a flugel after years of resisting. I guess I'm part of the Adams cult now...

Long story short, though, is that of the instruments I tried, only Adams was bringing something truly unique that set them apart from a crowded field of "top of the line" instruments. From reading these forums, it seems to be a similar case with euphoniums. Thinking about the market out there right now for brass, I think one has to either make a good value play (e.g. Wessex and John Packer) or make something that other people really aren't (Adams) to have a decent shot at getting a piece of the market. Meeting the standard set by the established players isn't going to cut it anymore.

[Hiramdiaz1]

Hello Everyone,

It’s gonna take a while to sift through your comments. I am currently playing a Shires Euphonium Prototype, which is very fine. What Shires is working on offering is a fully Custom hand made horn made in the United States. By fully custom, I mean they will be offering things never before seen on the market, and made in the United States.

They will offer the euphonium in both large shank and, to quote Brian Bowman, “true euphonium shank”.

Currently in production is their Q series. You can find out more about this line on your own. They are a FANTASTIC company with incredible leadership and I look forward to what the future holds.

Thanks!

P.S. if you live in the DC area and are free either Wednesday or Thursday night, I’ll be playing the Ponchielli Concerto on the Capitol Steps at 8PM both nights. Hopefully the weather complies!

[mbrooke]

Hello Everyone,

It’s gonna take a while to sift through your comments. I am currently playing a Shires Euphonium Prototype, which is very fine. What Shires is working on offering is a fully Custom hand made horn made in the United States. By fully custom, I mean they will be offering things never before seen on the market, and made in the United States.

They will offer the euphonium in both large shank and, to quote Brian Bowman, “true euphonium shank”.

Currently in production is their Q series. You can find out more about this line on your own. They are a FANTASTIC company with incredible leadership and I look forward to what the future holds.

Thanks!

P.S. if you live in the DC area and are free either Wednesday or Thursday night, I’ll be playing the Ponchielli Concerto on the Capitol Steps at 8PM both nights. Hopefully the weather complies!

I didn't think Marines would be afraid of a little rain...

Mike

[guidocorona]

Hello Hiram, would be great if you could record a substantial clip playing on your Shires prototype for all of us to watch... For example, a couple of movements from the Ponchielli... You playing solo without band would be just fine for this purpose.

Regards, Guido