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Thread: SE Shires Euphonium

  1. Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    I can't shake the feeling that THAT market for the eclectic/nostalgic/technophilic hobbyist/collector is definitely NOT the market that Shires is aiming at with this new instrument.
    School band instruments is also an attractive market for any manufacturer.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ghmerrill View Post
    Unless, of course, this is another "made in China" product (in one or another sense of "made")
    So, the way the Q-Series trombones work is that all of the components are made in the US workshop and then they are shipped to China where the final assembly is done. They don't specifically say this, but I suspect the valves on the Q-series trombones are actually made in china and that's one of the ways they save money.

    I'd expect that the Q-series euphonium would be made the same way -- bell, main branches, leadpipe - all the most impactful pieces that require the most skill to make would be made in Massachusetts and then shipped to the Eastman factory in China where it'd be married with a valve cluster and all the assembly would be done. Then shipped back to the US for inspection and any fixes that need to be done.
    --
    Barry

  3. Hello all- We are talking about a Q series instrument, so that should dictate ballpark cost and origin, although we all know the quality we will expect. Also, the Euro shank was dropped by Besson I believe as thru the years there was too much confusion between large and euro shank horns, there are more choices with large shank mouthpieces, and people flat out loose the euro shank horn mouthpieces which for some make the horn obsolete, just my experience dealing with band programs.

  4. #34
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    I am a bit shocked that a brand new professional euphonium would be specified with a medium shank mouthpiece. There are two significant reasons not to go this direction.

    1) The trend over the last 10-20 years has been to a larger euphonium sound and particular towards the brass band market.

    2) This very much limits the choice of mouthpieces. Wick makes many of theirs in medium shanks but the Heritage and a few others are not available this way. Of course Schilke, BB and a few others offer them but many other manufacturer's do not. If I were looking for a horn to replace my 2900, I would absolutely want a large shank receiver. Perhaps Shires has good reason but it's a puzzle to me.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbocaner View Post
    I'd expect that the Q-series euphonium would be made the same way -- bell, main branches, leadpipe - all the most impactful pieces that require the most skill to make would be made in Massachusetts and then shipped to the Eastman factory in China where it'd be married with a valve cluster and all the assembly would be done. Then shipped back to the US for inspection and any fixes that need to be done.
    Yeah, this is what I meant by 'in one sense or another of "made" '. But looking at this particular description of it makes for some head-scratching since parts are going back and forth to China (a two-way trip) with labor being applied to the product first in the US, then in China, then again in the US until it is finally shipped to the customer. I suppose I could sit down and write the equation that would model the break-even point for this bizarre process, but I think I"ll just marvel at it.

    I mean, when you think of what this must mean for the relative costs of shipping, US labor, Chinese labor, added administrative costs, perhaps import/export duties, and profit margin, you have to say to yourself "Wow, wages for the average skilled/semi-skilled Chinese worker must really suck," (though "suck" is relative to a number of things). And this is in the context of the company already supporting staff in the US to do some of the fabrication/assembly work! This yields insight WAY beyond what you get from thinking of the business model of Wessex, Mack Brass, and others.

    I don't mean that as any kind of political comment, and I won't make any, tempting as that may be. I just never realized the scope of what the difference must be, and I thought I did.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelSchott View Post
    Perhaps Shires has good reason but it's a puzzle to me.
    In the context, it makes you wonder if somewhere in China there isn't a building full of medium shank receivers that somebody got a really good deal on.
    Gary Merrill
    Wessex EEb Bass tuba (DW 3XL or 2XL)
    Mack Brass Compensating Euph (DE N106, Euph J, J9 euph)
    Amati Oval Euph (DE 104, Euph J, J6 euph)
    1924 Buescher 3-valve Eb tuba (with std US receiver), Kelly 25
    Schiller American Heritage 7B clone bass trombone (DE LB K/K10/112/14 Lexan, Brass Ark MV50R)
    1947 Olds "Standard" trombone (Olds #3)

  7. #37
    I was just trying out Eastman tubas at a local music store with an Eastman representative (playing that 6/4 C tuba is a religious experience, so easy). He told me that the Shires' basic premise is to make a horn that's similar to the 2900, but with the intonation fixed for around the top end horn price range. It makes sense that that's what Hiram Diaz would want. He also said that there will be a very close Chinese built approximation for a stellar deal. With their tubas being so easy to play and fantastic sounding, I'm optimistic about what they could do with the Willson premise. Though, I am moderately upset that I just bought a 2900 before I heard of this.

    Alex S.

  8. #38
    Will the Shires have a better low range than the Willson? That's the one big thing that would set it apart for me.
    University of Miami - BM Euphonium Performance '21
    Indiana University - MM Bass Trombone and Euphonium Performance '24



    Besson Prestige 2052S
    Courtois 551BHRA
    Conn 88HCLSGX
    Various Greg Black mouthpieces

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexS View Post
    I was just trying out Eastman tubas at a local music store with an Eastman representative (playing that 6/4 C tuba is a religious experience, so easy). He told me that the Shires' basic premise is to make a horn that's similar to the 2900, but with the intonation fixed for around the top end horn price range. It makes sense that that's what Hiram Diaz would want. He also said that there will be a very close Chinese built approximation for a stellar deal. With their tubas being so easy to play and fantastic sounding, I'm optimistic about what they could do with the Willson premise. Though, I am moderately upset that I just bought a 2900 before I heard of this.

    Alex S.
    Interesting comments from the rep. Maybe it's what I read on the internet but the 2900 does not seem to be that popular these days as most are going for larger bore horns. Shires is definitely going for the concert band market. Last, the 2900 has a few know intonation quirks (middle F and Ab concerts) but otherwise it's pretty good.

  10. #40
    Here in washington DC the 2900 is by far the most popular model. And the bore is the same as besson prestige, adams, yamaha, and many others - and actually larger through the 4th valve than some of the others. It just has a smaller receiver (although a regular bass trombone size is optional) and I believe the bell throat and first few branches are somewhat smaller than some other models.
    --
    Barry

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