generally, what range is expected from the euphonium in community band type music?

[Davidus1]

From one tuba player to another make sure you don't fall into a bad habit of using a mouthpiece that is too small. I started out with trombone and euphonium using smaller mouthpieces and upon some advice from Doug Elliott in the trombone forum (in general discussion about mouthpieces) started using a larger piece with great results. I actually have more range on the larger mouthpiece and am getting a much better sound. I've played tuba for almost 40 years. I've played trombone and euphonium for about 3. Had to remind myself to relax, play lots of long tones and enjoy! Best wishes to you in your new endeavor.

[ChristianeSparkle]

From one tuba player to another make sure you don't fall into a bad habit of using a mouthpiece that is too small. I started out with trombone and euphonium using smaller mouthpieces and upon some advice from Doug Elliott in the trombone forum (in general discussion about mouthpieces) started using a larger piece with great results. I actually have more range on the larger mouthpiece and am getting a much better sound. I've played tuba for almost 40 years. I've played trombone and euphonium for about 3. Had to remind myself to relax, play lots of long tones and enjoy! Best wishes to you in your new endeavor.

This is very interesting. I've been wondering whether a 4AL would be more comfortable to me compared to the 5AL that I'm using right now. Been having air leaking out of my corners while playing. I have rather crooked teeth.

[aroberts781]

I think John and Rick both make great points regarding typical "community band" range. In my experience, low concert F (right below bass clef staff) and high concert B-flat (fourth ledger line) will cover 99% of the notes that you would play in community groups. I kind of think that that range probably covers 99% of the notes played by professionals in ensemble settings as well. Any actual pros please feel free to correct me on that!

Solo literature pushes that range considerably in both directions.

What John said regarding practicing range is spot on. I feel like when I was in college and working on a piece, the advice I was given was that whatever the highest/lowest note that a piece called for, I should be practicing at least a minor third above/below that (which would be 3 chromatic notes, as John said). So if you have rep with the high concert B-flat, in practice you should be trying to play C's and D-flats above that to really make the B-flat solid every time.

It should be said that to many amateur players, myself included, a D-flat above high B-flat feels very high! So, don't get discouraged when you are working towards these goals and be patient! John's advice on extending your high range is great, and I think it is good to not ignore working on low range at the same time. This will give your chops a rest from playing high notes, and if practiced correctly with lots of air and a good embouchure, can help with the high range as well. Scales are an obvious way to work on extending your range downward, but it is also fun to take simple (or not so simple) melodies that you enjoy playing and play them down an octave or two.

[ChristianeSparkle]

I would like to seek further opinions/advices on extending my range. I've been doing the exercise that was shared and did make some progress, though the Bb seem to still be rather wonky. I've found this explanation below by Roger Lewis, which is rather interesting.

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jan2...obE5dsFGQTLz24

http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic....CqnyDSKpNmo2Bg

What caught my eyes was what was said below.

Now place your hand palm up against your chest. While still looking forward blow air at your hand (pretty much straight down). This is the setting I use to have a full sound in the high register.

For the high range you need to have firm tissue vibrating against firm tissue. This is when you curl the lips in slightly to have the "weathered" tissue of the outer lips creating the vibrations. This is firmer tissue and will allow the lip to vibrate at an even faster rate when combined with good air speed and a smaller apperture.

Wondering if that is what I should be paying attention to? My high range air flow is definitely not pointing downwards at all, it's probably at almost the same angle as the others, which is slightly pointed downwards (which means I squeeze my lips more, I am guessing).

The part of the lips is also an interesting point, as it seems like I am supposed to curl my lips inwards?

Not sure if I am doing it wrongly, I was just testing it out a little, and it feels like my teeth are biting into my lips when I try to keep my air direction downwards.

[davewerden]

What caught my eyes was what was said below.

Now place your hand palm up against your chest. While still looking forward blow air at your hand (pretty much straight down). This is the setting I use to have a full sound in the high register.

For the high range you need to have firm tissue vibrating against firm tissue. This is when you curl the lips in slightly to have the "weathered" tissue of the outer lips creating the vibrations. This is firmer tissue and will allow the lip to vibrate at an even faster rate when combined with good air speed and a smaller apperture.

Wondering if that is what I should be paying attention to? My high range air flow is definitely not pointing downwards at all, it's probably at almost the same angle as the others, which is slightly pointed downwards (which means I squeeze my lips more, I am guessing).

The part of the lips is also an interesting point, as it seems like I am supposed to curl my lips inwards?

Not sure if I am doing it wrongly, I was just testing it out a little, and it feels like my teeth are biting into my lips when I try to keep my air direction downwards.

I think you have seen this advice already, but I very much prefer this type of approach:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...and-High-Range

As a supplement to the above, I like another bit I read about. Choose a short melody line you know well and like. Play it in a moderate high register for you. Then work it up a half step at a time over subsequent days. You have to focus on the feeling of the line and "sell" it. This will guide you to the right technique.

And I have 2 follow-up pieces of advice (click to expand):

[John Morgan]

Christiane,

Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLE_-ly8hrQ

Towards the end some stuff on high range.

Dave's advice above is good, however, it is also important to have the right mechanics in place when going higher, you are changing your face (muscles, lips, etc.) as you go up and down. You "might" just happen to do the "right" things as you play these scales progressively higher, but it is useful to know what you should be doing. You can get a high range using a less than perfect approach (which may be limited in range and sound quality), and you can get a high range which sounds better and is higher when doing things with a better approach.

[ChristianeSparkle]

Thank you both, Mr. Werden and Mr. Morgan! Will try out the technique and see how it goes. As Mr. Morgan has pointed out, it doens't feel like I've really grasp what exactly is needed to hit those notes after practicing the range exercise in the link. It feels like I just so happen to play it "right" some times and hit those notes.

That said, I just did a quick check of the end of the video share by Mr. Morgan (it was 4am, woke up and decided to a quick look).

I tried to be more aware and intentional of how i tighten the corners of my upper lips as per the video, and I think it FINALLY clicked!

I will need a few more days and maybe a week to properly assess it, but today's 30 minutes of practice, I was hitting the Bb comfortably with a relatively open sound and managed to play an appergio ascending and descending numerous times without fail. What's more surprising was that I did not feel too worn out to continue playing. What it took was to be aware and ensure that I actually pull upwards the corners of my upper lips muscles like in the video whenever I go higher. I am over the moon right now, will keep practicing and see if it's really progress!

[eupharitone]

Necro'ing again, but while I think we can all think of many examples of pieces that have High Bb (Bb4) in them (Stars & Stripes, Molly on the Shore, Children's March etc.) can anyone think of any pieces that have C5, Db5, D5 or Eb5? I feel like I definitely have played pieces with these note but can't remember off the top of my head.

[mbrooke]

Pines of Rome — lots of B naturals. I believe Rocky Point Holiday goes to C# and Aegean Festival Overture goes to D.

[ackmondual]

From my experiences in community band

Crude ASCI bass clef staff.  Single dashes denote ledger lines.
Notes are in concert Bb. (numbers are fingerings)

-Bb (0)
               A# (0)       A (2)
-G (12 or 3)

-

-

---------

---------

---------

---------

---------
         Fb (123 or 24)
-E (123 or 24)

For the lower end, some euphoniums do not have a 4th valve, so if pieces going below the E below the staff aren't really a thing, or in the rare case it's there, go up an octave

For the higher end, The G above the staff would be an ideal minimum (I'm thinking in particular the euphonium solo in 2nd Suite In F, 1st movement, by Gustav Holst). I've had to play very brief passages involving A and Bb above the staff. This was for someone who 'wasn't that great'. If instructors know you're more capable, you can expect to go up to 2 half steps above the Bb

[ann reid]

A little off topic- Is it “legal” to double tongue the notes in the first measure of the March (Holst 2nd Suite) ?

[davewerden]

A little off topic- Is it “legal” to double tongue the notes in the first measure of the March (Holst 2nd Suite) ?

Absolutely legal as long as you play with the correct length and attack (i.e. to match the other people and sections playing this). It is especially legal if your single tongue sounds like you are struggling to play it at tempo.

I work to make my double tongue sound like my single tongue. Here is a great way to upgrade your double tonguing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_nCefdZRkw