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Adams E1 and E3 Compared

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  • davewerden
    Administrator
    • Nov 2005
    • 11136

    Adams E1 and E3 Compared

    Now that I have had more time with the new horn I wanted to give you the impressions you asked about. I'll post most of this on my forum as well.

    Overall, it's an easy choice for me - the E3 is a better fit for my playing.

    Physical feel:
    The E3 feels larger to hold, in a funny way. I measured the reach across the main 3 valves and from the 3rd tube to the 4th valve button, and nothing there seems any harder to reach, so for most people this horn will be as easy to hold. But the body is a tiny bit wider, and the hand grip is positioned a little differently, which may account for it feeling bigger to hold. I'm feeling no extra strain when standing. The body seems to be rotated out just a bit more in this rendition of the Adams euphonium, so the right hand can be even more relaxed.


    Tone:
    In testing with many different styles of music, the E3 gives me more of what I want for 80% of what I play. The more intimate feel of the E1 is better in a few cases, but that is in keeping with the E1's somewhat smaller sound - it works well on "smaller" pieces that need a light sound. On the larger (i.e. louder) band and solo pieces, the E3 just sounds more "at home." My pianist noticed a difference right from the first day I brought the E3 to practice. The tone is just a bit deeper, even when playing parlor pieces.

    Projection:
    The E3 is the winner here, and projection was one of my main motivations for changing from the E1. When playing with an orchestra recently I had to work too hard to project with the E1. The E3 has more "headroom" when I really want to play loudly without changing my tone too much. In fact, now that I have been away from daily loud playing (in the Coast Guard Band) for 21 years, I learned that I need to change my practice habits to build up that strength again. I can overpower the E1, but so far I have not been able to overpower the E3 - it feels like I'm not quite getting everything it is capable of because my power-ability has gotten lazy!

    Musical expression:
    I did not expect this, but the E3 surprised me. Because of the extra headroom in the E3, I have the ability to be more expressive. Little bursts of volume happen more easily, for example. And yet I can also "swoop" down to very soft levels easily.

    Ease of playing:
    This one was a surprise. In my Besson days, I found the 968 easier to play than the 967. The 968 was a little smaller in feel, and it required less effort. But with the E1/3 I'm finding the E3 is actually the easier of the two horns to play. Interesting, and a little surprising. And getting down to individual notes, most are easier on the E3. In concert pitch:
    - the upper G concert is a little harder to find so far compared to the E1, but I'm working on that.
    - the tricky high B is a little more comfortable than on the E1 (and the E1 was already pretty good)
    - the high D, Eb, E, and F are all better in tune and easier to play.
    - the lower part of the 4th-valve range is not quite as free as on the E1 (which was well broken-in, of course). Low C (2 ledger lines below the bass clef) is harder to find than on the E1. That MIGHT be newness still. The same is true for B and C# in that same range. The pedal tones are also not quite as easy to play yet.

    Intonation:
    Overall the intonation is better, which makes the E3 even more remarkable in the current field of pro horns. I still feel that Adams has the best intonation of any euphonium on the market, and I'm still happy without a trigger. It would be nice to have the trigger for some of the 23 notes, but I'll happily "suffer" with that for the benefit of the lighter weight without a trigger. You can compare the two horns here if you want: http://www.dwerden.com/Intonation/

    Judge for yourself:

    Here is a string of 14 excerpts played on each horn. This was done in my church sanctuary, so the room is large enough to give each horn a fair chance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uc_Ag0bYiE

    A recording does not fully capture the differences, but I think you can hear the tone difference in most of the excerpts. I had not had much time to practice the excerpts before running this, but I tried hard to play consistently. I actually recorded the first 8 pieces all on the E3, then all on the E1; then I did the next 6 all on the E3, then all on the E1. That was to help make sure I was playing each horn consistently. After recording, I broke each excerpt out and arranged them back-to-back as E3, then E1.

    Most computers' built-in speakers may not tell you much. I'd suggest good headphones (not earbuds) or full-range speakers to hear the differences. It's fair say that the differences are a bit subtle on the recording (they would be more obvious if you had been sitting in one of the pews).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium
  • John Morgan
    Moderator
    • Apr 2014
    • 1884

    #2
    Thanks for the great review and comparison between the E1 and E3, Dave! I listened to all 14 excerpts. I have "okay" speakers connected to my laptop (Altec Lansing on the desk - 2 of them, and a woofer box on one of my lower desk shelves). Certainly not the best, but better than laptop built in speakers. Both horns sound very nice. And I can't tell a lot of difference, but after listening very intently, I could hear a little more gravitas with the E3 and a little more bright with the E1 (or should I say less dark). There seems to be a tiny, tiny bit of additional "color" with the E3. If I were picking one part of the range for the greatest difference, I would say I preferred the lower range of the E3 to the E1, just more "note" to the note. Mind you these are very small differences. Both horns are great. I find the low range on my E3 to be better than any other horn, hands down. And the response and delicacy of playing soft is exquisite on the E3.

    I have played several solos with the E3 and concert band, and I am able to play above the band with the E3. I can play powerfully and not overblow with the E3, it just handles it. I think a previous review of the Adams horns by a guy with a funny user name spoke of being able to overblow easily, but IMHO, not so on the E3, especially with the Sterling Silver bell.

    Thanks for doing this, Dave. I know that is a labor intensive piece of work. But then, it is fun playing on an Adams, be it an E1 or E3.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium,
    1973 F. E. Olds & Son Studio Model T-31 Baritone
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Year Round Except Summer:
    Kingdom of the Sun (KOS) Concert Band, Ocala, FL (Euphonium)
    KOS Brass Quintet (Trombone, Euphonium)
    Summer Only:
    Rapid City Municipal Band, Rapid City, SD (Euphonium)
    Rapid City New Horizons Band (Euphonium)

    Comment

    • daruby
      Moderator
      • Apr 2006
      • 2217

      #3
      Fantastic review, Dave! I played a sterling silver E1 for about an hour at Austin Custom Brass. It was finished in a brushed/frosted finish like an old New Standard. I found it to be a fantastic horn with great responsiveness and intonation. As I've gotten used to my E3, I find it warm, big, and capable of a darkness that the E1 doesn't have. It is interesting that the E3 gets its power from a number of factors (bell design is vastly different), but not from being particularly heavier, so it is still plays very "free" like the other Adams. My daily comparisons, of course, are with my Sterling Virtuoso rather than an E1. I still prefer the smoothness and sound of my Sterling, though it comes at the price of weight and ergonomics that the E3 beats handily.
      Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
      Concord Band
      Winchendon Winds
      Townsend Military Band

      Comment

      • run76
        Member
        • Nov 2014
        • 84

        #4
        Dave, thank you for the exerpts. I personnaly prefer the "brighness" of the E1... probably normal after years of bass saxhorn and now Besson Prestige 2051... I like "crispy" sound (my instrument makes me happy the good days when I reach the clarity of sound I like). However, I prefer the E3 in the last excerpt.

        Comment

        • pvflanigan
          Member
          • Oct 2006
          • 33

          #5
          Dave, does the Adams E3 you have have a Sterling Silver bell? How does it compare to the Adams E3 selected? Thanks

          Comment

          • davewerden
            Administrator
            • Nov 2005
            • 11136

            #6
            Originally posted by pvflanigan View Post
            Dave, does the Adams E3 you have have a Sterling Silver bell? How does it compare to the Adams E3 selected? Thanks
            Both my E1 and E3 had a sterling silver bell.

            I recently played a few months on a yellow brass E3, which is like the selected except mine had a brushed finish. It surprised me how nice it sounded! The sterling silver is more versatile for advanced players and would ultimately be able to handle more from a powerful player. But the yellow brass is quite easy to play and has a very fine sound. I don't hesitate to recommend it.

            Here is a sample of me playing the yellow horn:

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVbLnWijhOg

            Note that it will a bit different from my "normal" videos in this same room. I had to record with a small digital recorder in the front row of pews, which is not ideal but still OK.
            Dave Werden (ASCAP)
            Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
            Adams Artist (Adams E3)
            Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
            YouTube: dwerden
            Facebook: davewerden
            Twitter: davewerden
            Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

            Comment

            • Davidus1
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 622

              #7
              Nice!
              John 3:16


              Conn Victor 5H Trombone
              Yamaha 354 Trombone
              Conn 15I Euphonium

              Comment

              • pvflanigan
                Member
                • Oct 2006
                • 33

                #8
                Thanks for the information.

                Comment

                • pvflanigan
                  Member
                  • Oct 2006
                  • 33

                  #9
                  Thanks for the information. I have an Adams E1 with a Sterling Silver Bell. I'm trying to decide if I should switch to an E3. The E1 seems to have projection issues when I play in a large group like a community band or a brass band for that matter. I'm thinking the E3 might be better at that. Unfortunately I can't afford to keep two of these euphoniums, so it's one or the other. And I don't really have a venue to try out the E3.
                  Last edited by pvflanigan; 12-08-2018, 09:21 AM.

                  Comment

                  • MichaelSchott
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2012
                    • 474

                    #10
                    Originally posted by davewerden View Post
                    Both my E1 and E3 had a sterling silver bell.

                    I recently played a few months on a yellow brass E3, which is like the selected except mine had a brushed finish. It surprised me how nice it sounded! The sterling silver is more versatile for advanced players and would ultimately be able to handle more from a powerful player. But the yellow brass is quite easy to play and has a very fine sound. I don't hesitate to recommend it.

                    Here is a sample of me playing the yellow horn:

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVbLnWijhOg

                    Note that it will a bit different from my "normal" videos in this same room. I had to record with a small digital recorder in the front row of pews, which is not ideal but still OK.
                    Lovely David! Quick question, why do you sometimes use 3rd valve for the middle G concert? Is it a bit sharp played 1 and 2? Otherwise the intonation seems to be right on with normal fingerings.

                    Comment

                    • davewerden
                      Administrator
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 11136

                      #11
                      Originally posted by MichaelSchott View Post
                      Lovely David! Quick question, why do you sometimes use 3rd valve for the middle G concert? Is it a bit sharp played 1 and 2? Otherwise the intonation seems to be right on with normal fingerings.
                      Yes, 1&2 is typically sharp by a little bit on most horns. If you watch my video of the Sparke Fantasy (in the 5G mouthpiece thread) you'll see me using 3 on my Sterling for the same note.
                      Dave Werden (ASCAP)
                      Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
                      Adams Artist (Adams E3)
                      Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
                      YouTube: dwerden
                      Facebook: davewerden
                      Twitter: davewerden
                      Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

                      Comment

                      • davewerden
                        Administrator
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 11136

                        #12
                        Originally posted by pvflanigan View Post
                        Thanks for the information. I have an Adams E1 with a Sterling Silver Bell. I'm trying to decide if I should switch to an E3. The E1 seems to have projection issues when I play in a large group like a community band or a brass band for that matter. I'm thinking the E3 might be better at that. Unfortunately I can't afford to keep two of these euphoniums, so it's one or the other. And I don't really have a venue to try out the E3.
                        I think the E3 is a pretty safe bet. It really does have better projection but it is not harder to play. In fact, I find it easier to play.
                        Dave Werden (ASCAP)
                        Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
                        Adams Artist (Adams E3)
                        Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
                        YouTube: dwerden
                        Facebook: davewerden
                        Twitter: davewerden
                        Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

                        Comment

                        • MichaelSchott
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 474

                          #13
                          Originally posted by davewerden View Post
                          Yes, 1&2 is typically sharp by a little bit on most horns. If you watch my video of the Sparke Fantasy (in the 5G mouthpiece thread) you'll see me using 3 on my Sterling for the same note.
                          I was just wondering if Adams had solved this problem. As one who plays a Willson 2900S, I'm quite familiar with the intonation on that note :-(. Unfortunately it's flat when played with 3rd valve.

                          Comment

                          • davewerden
                            Administrator
                            • Nov 2005
                            • 11136

                            #14
                            Originally posted by MichaelSchott View Post
                            I was just wondering if Adams had solved this problem. As one who plays a Willson 2900S, I'm quite familiar with the intonation on that note :-(. Unfortunately it's flat when played with 3rd valve.
                            On the Willson, the A is quite flat (by reputation). Perhaps that still affects things for the G???

                            On the Adams I have played the upper G is just fine with 12. It is always fine on my E3. On the E1 is was usually fine, but sometimes I wanted to use 3.
                            Dave Werden (ASCAP)
                            Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
                            Adams Artist (Adams E3)
                            Alliance Mouthpiece DC3, Wick 4AL, Wick 4ABL
                            YouTube: dwerden
                            Facebook: davewerden
                            Twitter: davewerden
                            Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

                            Comment

                            • daruby
                              Moderator
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 2217

                              #15
                              Hi all,

                              I use 3rd valve on my Adams E3 (for G in the staff) and use 1/2 with trigger or 3 without trigger on my Sterling. My 2001 Besson Sovereign was in tune with 1/2, my Prestige was 3rd or 1/2 with trigger. My Sterling baritone is also 3rd. As David says, havinbg a sharp G (in the staff) is pretty common.

                              Doug
                              Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
                              Concord Band
                              Winchendon Winds
                              Townsend Military Band

                              Comment

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