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Thread: Euphonium in Mahler #7

  1. #1
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    Euphonium in Mahler #7

    When I'm working on my PC I often listen to Pandora radio. One of my programmed channels is "Mahler" as Mahler #5 is one of my favorite pieces. The other day I was listening and they were playing Mahler #7 (E minor). The first movement (Slow - Allegro Risoluto Ma Non Troppo) - actually in B minor - had some really great horn playing. I thought at first it was French horn but the tone was different with more overtones. I went googling Mahler 7 and searched for some videos of this great piece. I found out that Mahler wrote the first movement to include tenor horn in B♭. The VPO and some other orchestras use an oval euphonium, but the one linked below actually used the more familiar euphonium. Not sure what model, but at first thought it Yamaha due to bracing. Not sure. He has some trigger thingy to move his first slide (interesting fingering technique). Can't figure out what orchestra this is but Chris Martin is playing solo trumpet and I see Dale Clevenger on horn. Maybe CSO??? No credit is given. -- edit -- It is the CSO. That's Michael Mulcahy on euph and Charles Vernon on bass trombone.

    Mahler Symphony No. 7 in E minor - Pierre Boulez directing
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTCJyhh2wTk

    Last edited by RickF; 06-13-2017 at 11:15 AM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  2. #2
    Definitely CSO, I think from a Great Performances broadcast in October 2011. I see Jay Friedman and Charlie Vernon, so I'm 99.9% sure that's Michael Mulcahy on Euphonium. Really great sound, and authentically holds to the part as notated - The isolated opening fanfare in the middle of the first movement is rhythmically notated differently than the opening, which I've always assumed was a misprint, but he executes as written.

  3. #3
    It's an older Willson, before they started using the half-round wire braces on the valve tubing. I really like hearing it done with oval tenorhorn as I think it's usually a little more colorful, but this is an awesome performance.
    --
    Barry

  4. #4
    Here's a NY Phil performance that features Joe Alessi on the tenor horn part, playing on a Yamaha Neo Baritone. I had wondered what a British-style baritone would sound like on this, and I was left underwhelmed. I've heard other performances with other orchestras that utilize a German-style oval horn, and have thought those were very much within the characteristic style expected, as well as many performances with a traditional euphonium, such as the CSO video that started this thread. I'm interested in hearing the forum's thoughts on this NY Phil performance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1LHOCjXZVI

    I was also surprised at the mix of trumpets, with the principal on a rotary and the rest of the section on pistons. That might have more to do with the mix of musicians in the orchestra for this performance with its unity theme though, than for any stylistic choices. I can't say I heard any significant difference between the instruments, and the section sounded great on what is a real tour de force for the whole section.

  5. #5
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    This is certainly not meant as criticism on anything that Joe Alessi does, but the Yamaha Neo baritone doesn't sound as good on that part than the older Willson euph with its 11" bell - nor the oval tenor horns. Certain ranges sounded fine, but other times a bit too bright to my ear.

    Has to to be a pretty recent recording since Chris Martin is there on trumpet. He just got to NY Phil in May, 2016.
    Last edited by RickF; 06-15-2017 at 10:39 AM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  6. #6
    How cool is that! I'm a huge fan of the Neo baritone. But the german tenorhorns are larger instruments than the british baritones, more of an inbetween size. I love that he didn't just play it on euphonium, though, and went for a smaller instrument.
    --
    Barry

  7. #7
    It's a performance from June 10, 2017 that I think was Alan Gilbert's final subscription performance as Music Director. Apart from the NY players, there is a mix of players from orchestras around the world. Upon watching more of the performance, there are several interesting things that happen throughout.

    I noticed that after Alessi was done with the tenor horn, he immediately picked up the trombone and made the next section entrance without any respite, and that at a later point, he and Colin switched seats to assume the more traditional positions of principal and assistant. This appears to have happened throughout the other sections too, but not with the physical seat switching.

    I feel like you can always tell a European woodwind player from an American, not by sound, but by how much they move when they play. The contrast between the two clarinetists is pretty stark. I don't even know for sure that one was European, I just feel like he had to be.

    I thought it odd to place the guitar and mandolin so far back in the orchestra. Most performances I've seen have them nestled near the front of the string sections. They must have been amplified, and I thought that they had a very twangy, metallic sound compared to what I've hear in most other performances, perhaps as the result of amplification.

    I wonder where Phil Meyers was? And what is the deal with horns nowadays? I'm used to seeing double horns with four valves, but some of these guys looked like they had six valves! How does one have enough fingers when one hand is occupied on the backside of the instrument?

    Rick, I agree with you 100% about the brightness of the baritone. I thought the last phrase in particular suffered, where the English horn doubles the tenor horn. I always thought the tonal coloring of those instruments was really important, and I feel like it was lost here.

  8. #8
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    I met a horn player several years ago who had a horn with 7 valves! It was a triple (5-valves) with high 'F' side, but another valve so he could play 'stopped' and not have to xpose. Don't remember what the 7th valve did. Double and triple valves are both played with the thumb, so not too difficult. Not sure how he played the other two.

    Pretty sure Phil Meyers plays a Engleburt Schmid triple horn. A friend of mine bought one of those a couple years ago, but a double horn. Told me it was $12K!
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

  9. #9
    there are some triples with 7 valves even without having stop valves. Essentially, the two change valves are split into two valves for optimum routing and bore tapering. So you have one linkage for F/Bb which connects to two physical valves rather than the tubing returning back to the original valve.
    --
    Barry

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