Stars and Stripes Forever, euph part

[DaveBj]

Is there really ANYBODY who plays this error-free, with all notes at full value? Is that even humanly possible? :O

[davewerden]

It can be done. Pretty sure I used to be able to...but not every time!

[daniel76309]

Are there multiple arrangements for it? We currently have a Philip Sparke arrangement in community band which goes up to high C concert in several places, and it is tricky in general. I don't remember it being this difficult when we did it back in college.

[highpitch]

Let's channel Simone Mantia and see what he says...

BTW the key in our band is 3 euphs and taking turns.

Dennis

[John Morgan]

Are there multiple arrangements for it? We currently have a Philip Sparke arrangement in community band which goes up to high C concert in several places, and it is tricky in general. I don't remember it being this difficult when we did it back in college.

To me, it is somewhat sacrilegious to play Stars and Stripes in anything but the key John Philip Sousa wrote it in. Playing it in an orchestra (on trombone) with sharps in the key signature makes me want to yak and howl simultaneously. Strings don't like flats, but too bad, it should be in the original key. In the original (and correct) key, the euphonium goes to a high concert Bb in the break strain. Then in the last strain, many euphonium players play a high concert Bb you know where. I know, JPS did not write that note.

As far as playing it error free, pretty tough, but I agree with Dave, it can be done. I won't say ANYONE can play it perfectly (note lengths, absolute perfection on the first strain in timing, accents in the right place, dynamics, cres/decres, etc.). Would take a full tank of gas, a couple of Hostess Twinkies, same happy pills, and a partridge in a pear tree to do it absolutely perfectly. I can play it without missing any notes on occasion, but is it perfect, probably not???

[tonewheeler]

Let's channel Simone Mantia and see what he says...

BTW the key in our band is 3 euphs and taking turns.

Dennis

That's what my band does as well.

[KKORO]

Since I started late in life, I hold no hope of being a good technical player. So, it does my heart well to hear such accomplished players having trouble at times.

Thanks, KKORO

[RickF]

When we play S+S it's almost always our encore piece so not on the program. Because of that our lips are pretty tired. It's sometimes tough to get those high Bb's so we usually take turns - which ever eupher has the stronger lip left. It's a great march and J.P. Sousa's claim to fame. It was one thing Congress got right in making it our Nat'l march.

Loras Schissel (JP Sousa expert for Library of Congress) worked with the U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) on the correct way to play 4 JP Sousa marches. The last one they did was Stars and Stripes Forever. He points out the 16th notes in the first strain for low brass should be treated as 32nd notes since it's cut time. Also, the crescendo in measure 11, 12 is a mistake and should be a diminuendo. This mistake was made in a very old engraving and never corrected. We play Keith Brion's arr. and it's wrong there too.

If interested, you can watch that portion of the video here:
http://bit.ly/1o2TYzr

[daruby]

Here in New England, Stars and Stripes is almost always the last piece on a concert, right after 1812 (thanks Boston Pops!) or the Carmen Dragon version of America the Beautiful. I have been playing S&S since I was a sophomore in high school, always the original Sousa version or perhaps an annotated edit of it. As a result, I no longer use the music having memorized the euphonium part some 30+ years ago. (This allows me to put my stand down and close my music at the end of outdoor concerts, preparing for a quick exit!)

I find I can play intro, 1st, 2nd, and trio strains pretty well by dropping a single note here or there for breathing purposes. Playing the high Ab in the trio at piano or pianissimo during the piccolo solo also usually works pretty well. The break strain is the pits, though. After doing the 16th note descending passages and first two arpeggios (ending of Fb and Gb), the final arpeggio to high Bb is killer. If I was young again, had fresh chops, and regularly practiced this arpeggio I would be fine. But the combination of age, tired chops at the end of the concert, and lack of wind after the first two arpeggios, means that the Eb major arpeggio to high Bb usually escapes me. I either have to eliminate the arpeggio and play the high Bb or do the arpeggio to a middle Bb, or (sometimes) just gasp for air!

[RickF]

There's something we've done in our band for as long as I can remember that may help. We lay out completely the first time thru in the trio (let the saxes shine). The 'break strain' can be tough for me. If the director is taking it at exactly at 120 bpm, I can single tongue those notes, but if he's any faster, I'm between single and double and that can be tough for me.

The Carmen Dragon arr. of America the Beautiful is the only one bands should play IMHO. It's a real master piece! We're playing both of these at Monday's and Friday's ending season concerts.

[davewerden]

The Carmen Dragon arr. of America the Beautiful is the only one bands should play IMHO. It's a real master piece!

Agreed!!! I don't know how you would improve on that.

[John the Theologian]

Sousa marches are often tough sledding, especially for those of us who are clearly of amateur status and don't have tons of time to practice. I have a number of Sousa marches- including S and S-- that I always get out in the spring as I prepare for the summer community band season. I play both trombone and euphonium, but much of the year I play more trombone because I play jazz in a big band. During the spring I up the amount of euphonium practice and use a fair number of Sousa marches to get some modicum of technical facility back.

You can find many of the Sousa and other classic marches online and print out the baritone parts--few actually use the name euphonium. I always enlarge them so that my bi-focaled eyes can see the otherwise tiny notes.

[sirendude2015]

I'm currently practicing S+S as the local brass choir prepares for an upcoming performance. I can see why some would think it's near impossible- currently I'm having a lot of trouble lining up double tonguing with valve action in certain spots. But, with enough practice and determination, anything is possible.

[DaveBj]

Thanks to all for the useful and amusing remarks. Some responses --

Daniel -- I'm not familiar with any arrangement that takes the euph up to a high concert C. And I'm grateful for that, too, I might add.

Dennis -- Taking turns is an excellent idea, but it wouldn't work in our section. There are three other players, but none of them can get much above a high F or G.

John -- The high Bb at the you-know-where spot in the Maestoso? Yep, do that as often as my chops will allow

Rick -- The timing of the 16th notes in the first strain is almost an arcane secret. I think I was in college before I got that right. And I've always wondered about taking a crescendo from a forte to a piano. That mistake is also in the brass band arrangement. The eighth notes in the break strain -- double tongue for me.

Doug -- Yes, the break strain is a booger, as we say here in the south. Sometimes I drop out and let the saxes handle the last arpeggio, so I can land on the high Bb.

Oh, and slowing down the Trio the last time thru? JPS didn't do it in the 1920s recording that I have, with Himself conducting. Just say "No!"

[davewerden]

If you have a well-controlled double-tongue technique (and of course we should have!) then lightly tonguing in the arpeggios can help secure them. I used to slur the first two notes and tongue the second two notes when I thought I needed the extra security. If you do it lightly, it does not change the flavor at all within the ensemble, but it helps get the right notes out the door.