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Thread: Bringing an Instrument Up to A440

  1. Bringing an Instrument Up to A440

    I own a 1927 Conn Double Bell Euphonium that is in terrific shape - valves are excellent, finish is good, minimal dings, etc. The only problem is that with all the tuning slide pushed in all the way it still plays almost 25 cents flat. Given the manufacturing date, I can't imagine it would be low pitch. Using different mouthpieces has little to no effect.

    I am considering having the instrument cut to bring it up to pitch. Before I proceed, I would like to know if anybody has any experience doing this and what, if any, problems might result.

    Thank you in advance for your responses.

  2. #2
    First thing to check is the passageways. The horn may need a complete cleaning inside to get rid of built-up deposits or even debris (I still remember the time I played at state contest with a bottle of valve oil in my horn - it had migrated there from being loose in the case). Since you have no big dents, then one other possible cause is eliminated.

    If that does not do the trick, then a good repair shop can shorten the slides. I would start with the main slide for the large bell first. If the small bell is also flat when no valves are pushed then it needs to be shortened too, but often not as much.

    Once the open middle Bb is in tune, then consider the valve slides. Some may need no shortening; some may need to be shortened, but probably not by as much as the main slide. Since the main slide affects every note, you need to re-assess the valve slides only once the main slide is fixed. (I'm repeating myself on purpose!)

    It's usually easy to do for a good repair tech, but is a little tedious because of the steps I described. If there are the little rolled ends on the outer slide receivers, those need to be un-soldered first and then re-soldered to the shortened tube ends. And it is usually easier to not mess up the finish much if the horn is silver instead of lacquer. (Or you can have the tubes cut and leave off the extra roll.) But if the slide receivers have no fancy rolled ends, then no solder work is necessary and that simplifies things greatly.

    I've never had this done myself, so I'm just going from what I have heard. Others may jump in with actual experience!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. #3
    1927 is not too late for the instrument to have been designed to tune at A=439, AKA "low pitch". Cutting an inch or so from the main tuning slide shouldn't be an issue. I've had it done to a modern instrument that was too low. The inner tuning slide and the outer tuning slide should be cut. If there are trim rings (aka the rolled edges dave mentions) on the outer tuning slide, they should take off the entire outer slide and cut the back rather than the front -- this is easier than removing them and then putting them back on. There will be some minor finish damage by doing this, but it will be subtle, especially if it's silver plated. You probably will only need to do the main tuning slide, although in some cases the other valve slides may be slightly too long as well.
    Last edited by bbocaner; 04-27-2017 at 12:32 PM.
    --
    Barry

  4. #4
    I have a 1941 Boosey & Co. Imperial that was horribly flat for me - more than 50 cents. Couldn't play the horn at all, so it sat in my closet generally unplayed from 1984 until I turned it over to Lee Stofer in 2014, who did just as Dave described - cut the tuning slide legs, then rebuilt several of the valve tuning slides as some of them had partially rotted away. Then he cut correspondingly on those valve tuning slide "legs". The end result was I have a spot-on middle Bb when the horn is warm with the tuning slide pulled about an inch.

    I'm no technician, so I don't know the detail beyond that, but I do know it's not a job for the faint of heart. Cutting a horn is rather permanent, seems to me, and Lee's estimates turned out right on target.
    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  5. #5
    Amen! It's hard to beat Lee's work.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    From the internet 404 message and Yelp, it appears Lee is out of business...

    Dennis

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by highpitch View Post
    From the internet 404 message and Yelp, it appears Lee is out of business...

    Dennis
    His web site is up and running...

    http://tubameister.com/
    Last edited by Eupher6; 04-28-2017 at 03:27 AM.
    U.S. Army, Retired (built mid-1950s)
    Adams E2 Euph (built 2017)
    Boosey & Co. Imperial Euph (built 1941)
    Edwards B454 Bass Trombone (built 2012)
    Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb tuba (built 1958)
    Kanstul 33-T lBBb tuba (built 2010)

  8. #8
    I can confirm that Lee is still in business. He is in the process of preparing a number of Eb tubas and Helicons he has in his loft for sale later this year. I had a 1911 Conn double bell that he shortened the main tuning slide. It had the same issues described. Only the main tuning slide needed shortening (about 1/2 inch on each leg) to get it to play a rock solid 440. So, from this, you should take it to a good experienced tech. That person will make the adjustments needed for your horn which may be different from others.

  9. #9
    Right. I just heard from Lee and he is going stronger than ever! Whew! We'd sure hate to lose his awesome talent.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  10. #10
    Maybe HighPitch got those messages because, after 17 years, I closed my juno.com account. I have a new e-mail account, tubamacher@gmail.com, which is a lot better in a number of ways. The Good Lord Willing, I'm in this business for some time to come, and if I ever do decide to retire, I'll let everyone know.

    And, for all you euphonium players out there, I do have two English-made Besson 3 + 1 compensating euphoniums upstairs that I plan to completely restore this year and offer for sale later in the year. Since I will be completely disassembling and basically re-manufacturing these instruments, they can either be bright-silver-plated, satin-silver-plated with bright trim and bell interior, or finished in a baked-on epoxy lacquer finish. If interested, please feel free to contact me to discuss.

    Lee Stofer
    Lee Stofer Music, Inc.
    3583 260th Street
    Camanche IA 52730-9658
    (563) 321-0642
    tubamacher@gmail.com
    www.tubameister.com

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