Want to Buy: 3+1 compensating euphonium up to $3000

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Thanks in advance for reading my post!

Missed out on a beautiful Yamaha 642S Neo, so am posting here.

I have a 6th grader playing the Yamaha 201, 2nd year of playing, and he's ready to upgrade.

I am committed to buying a new Yamaha 321S (well cared for used is nearly the same price), so for a similar price am hoping to find a well cared for compensating euphonium.

I think he will be an engineer, so not a music major, but might want to compete for all-state band, and I've read that he will need a compensating horn to be successful.

Although he has not damaged his 201, and carries it in a soft case, I was thinking he needs a sturdier built upgrade. I am also surprised that he hasn't lost his euphonium.

I love the price of the Mack and Wessex models, but am concerned that the thinner made horns could get damaged before he's done with highschool; I don't want to buy a third horn.

Thanks again -

Deb

[davewerden]

Welcome to the forum, Deb!

First, let me say that there is no ideal solution, but there are at least some good solutions.

The Yamaha 321 is a rugged workhorse that has proven capable at taking a fair amount of abuse. PART of that is due to its being a simpler design than a compensating horn. But it IS non-compensating and could limit a player's choices in music to some extent. A non-comp horn is fine for 98% of band music, but maybe only 80% of advanced solo music (wild guesstimates for both numbers).

A Mack/Wessex offers a compensating horn that plays very well, and can be used for any music that my $9,000 Adams can play. But both Mack/Wessex and my particular Adams are more easily dented than the venerable 321.

The closest to ideal is a used Besson in very good condition, particularly the New Standard or Sovereign line. They are typically built like tanks and can take as much abuse as any other euphonium. But the heavy, more dent-resistant metal and consequently heavier to carry around and hold while playing. Additionally, the Bessons have a bit more trouble with 3 very sharp notes in the top of the main range (treble clef F, F#, G at the top of the staff, or bass clef Eb, E, and F above the staff). Alternate fingerings can tame those notes, however. The other catch with Bessons is that a horn in nice condition with probably be over $3,000...sometimes by a lot. A few good ones have gone by for somewhere in the 2's or at 3k, though. If you are patient, keep watching the For Sale section here, because I will surely post anything I see that fits the bill.

A nice Willson could also work well. They are similarly heavy and highly regarded. But nice ones tend to cost a bit more than Bessons. Willsons have tamed the 3 notes I mentioned above, but they have a sharpness problem on the middle G/G# (treble) or F/F# (bass clef). It is possible a good bargain will show up on a Willson, but less likely (based on observation over time).

[dsurkin]

I think you'll be happy with either the Mack Brass or Wessex models. My Mack Brass horn does not feel fragile. Losing it is another issue.

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Thank you for the info!

I am not a musical person, but love learning from this forum!!

Deb

[decent.beginner's.mom]

I think you'll be happy with either the Mack Brass or Wessex models. My Mack Brass horn does not feel fragile. Losing it is another issue.

Thanks Dean

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Mr Werden -

Thanks again for the info. I contacted Wessex and their next batch of euphoniums, with the newest improvements, is scheduled to arrive at the end of May. Andy said that a few Silver/Gold euphoniums in that shipment haven't been sold, so I ordered one. I doubt that I will find anything better for $3000, but am still looking as I can cancel my order before it arrives at Wessex.

Deb

Welcome to the forum, Deb!

First, let me say that there is no ideal solution, but there are at least some good solutions.

The Yamaha 321 is a rugged workhorse that has proven capable at taking a fair amount of abuse. PART of that is due to its being a simpler design than a compensating horn. But it IS non-compensating and could limit a player's choices in music to some extent. A non-comp horn is fine for 98% of band music, but maybe only 80% of advanced solo music (wild guesstimates for both numbers).

A Mack/Wessex offers a compensating horn that plays very well, and can be used for any music that my $9,000 Adams can play. But both Mack/Wessex and my particular Adams are more easily dented than the venerable 321.

The closest to ideal is a used Besson in very good condition, particularly the New Standard or Sovereign line. They are typically built like tanks and can take as much abuse as any other euphonium. But the heavy, more dent-resistant metal and consequently heavier to carry around and hold while playing. Additionally, the Bessons have a bit more trouble with 3 very sharp notes in the top of the main range (treble clef F, F#, G at the top of the staff, or bass clef Eb, E, and F above the staff). Alternate fingerings can tame those notes, however. The other catch with Bessons is that a horn in nice condition with probably be over $3,000...sometimes by a lot. A few good ones have gone by for somewhere in the 2's or at 3k, though. If you are patient, keep watching the For Sale section here, because I will surely post anything I see that fits the bill.

A nice Willson could also work well. They are similarly heavy and highly regarded. But nice ones tend to cost a bit more than Bessons. Willsons have tamed the 3 notes I mentioned above, but they have a sharpness problem on the middle G/G# (treble) or F/F# (bass clef). It is possible a good bargain will show up on a Willson, but less likely (based on observation over time).

[davewerden]

Mr Werden -

Thanks again for the info. I contacted Wessex and their next batch of euphoniums, with the newest improvements, is scheduled to arrive at the end of May. Andy said that a few Silver/Gold euphoniums in that shipment haven't been sold, so I ordered one. I doubt that I will find anything better for $3000, but am still looking as I can cancel my order before it arrives at Wessex.

Deb

I'm sure you'll like the Wessex. The company does a good job of constantly improving the Chinese horns. If you go ahead with Wessex, my advice for your son is to treat it like he would treat an Adams (or any other very expensive horn). The horn itself is nice. As I mentioned, the dent factor is about the same with Wessex as with a horn like mine, so you want to avoid banging into things whenever possible. Any ANY horn will work its best for you if keep it clean, oil regularly, etc. I am always careful to put mine out of harm's way when I'm not holding it. A lot of damage happens when you leave a horn on the floor (or, gasp!, on a chair) when you take a break. Youth or adults are not at their most graceful when walking around chairs, music stands, and instruments. If you keep the case near that would work, but that may not be possible in a rehearsal. If I'm stuck like that I put the horn in a corner somewhere out of traffic.

Even if I had a sturdy older Besson than I liked, I would take similar care of it. You can damage the toughest horn under some condition.

In Junior High I left my (personally-owned) Conn on my chair in a practice room, which I now know is a terrible idea. The janitor came into the room to sweep when I stepped away and knocked it off the chair. It fell so that it struck the mouthpiece and apparently he knew he had jammed the mouthpiece into the horn. So he got out his trusty pliers and tried to twist it loose. The result was a badly-twisted leadpipe! You just never know what might happen.

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Excellent advice!

Is there a mouthpiece that you recommend?

My son has an adult sized head, and his facial features are in sync with his head size

I'm sure you'll like the Wessex. The company does a good job of constantly improving the Chinese horns. If you go ahead with Wessex, my advice for your son is to treat it like he would treat an Adams (or any other very expensive horn). The horn itself is nice. As I mentioned, the dent factor is about the same with Wessex as with a horn like mine, so you want to avoid banging into things whenever possible. Any ANY horn will work its best for you if keep it clean, oil regularly, etc. I am always careful to put mine out of harm's way when I'm not holding it. A lot of damage happens when you leave a horn on the floor (or, gasp!, on a chair) when you take a break. Youth or adults are not at their most graceful when walking around chairs, music stands, and instruments. If you keep the case near that would work, but that may not be possible in a rehearsal. If I'm stuck like that I put the horn in a corner somewhere out of traffic.

Even if I had a sturdy older Besson than I liked, I would take similar care of it. You can damage the toughest horn under some condition.

In Junior High I left my (personally-owned) Conn on my chair in a practice room, which I now know is a terrible idea. The janitor came into the room to sweep when I stepped away and knocked it off the chair. It fell so that it struck the mouthpiece and apparently he knew he had jammed the mouthpiece into the horn. So he got out his trusty pliers and tried to twist it loose. The result was a badly-twisted leadpipe! You just never know what might happen.

[davewerden]

What mouthpiece is he using now?

[decent.beginner's.mom]

He has his instrument at school, but it's a Yamaha 201, so the mouth piece he uses is what was standard on that euphonium.

I'm wondering if I should upgrade the Wessex mouth piece, for his new instrument.

What mouthpiece is he using now?

[bbocaner]

I think the YEP-201 comes with a Yamaha 48 which is roughly equivalent to a Bach 6.5AL. The Wessex will benefit from a larger mouthpiece for sure, but it really depends on whether or not your son is ready.

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Thanks Barry!

I think that comes with a Yamaha 48 which is roughly equivalent to a Bach 6.5AL. The Wessex will benefit from a larger mouthpiece for sure, but it really depends on whether or not your son is ready.

[davewerden]

I might consider a Bach 5G. To save money for now you could buy the equivalent Kelly mouthpiece in Lexan. They are pretty high quality:

https://www.amazon.com/Kelly-Euphoni.../dp/B00GXEWFBY

[decent.beginner's.mom]

Thank You!

[daruby]

Don't forget that the Wessex is large shank and the Yamaha 201 is small shank.