Yamaha Neo Opinions

[EuphoJon]

Regarding tuning, I have my first slide all the way in, second slide all the way in, third slide out about 1 cm, 4th slide out about 1 1/2 cm and tuning slide out anywhere from 1cm to 2 1/2 cm (depends on ensemble, temperature, acoustics etc.). I am still playing around with my tuning as well due to the fact I don't have the luxury of a trigger - however that may be a later addition by Yamaha itself There are still a few awkward notes - middle concert D is sharp on 1+2 (typical of Yamaha euphs) so I have to use 3rd valve, but I have gotten used to bringing 1+2 into tune. Middle concert Db on 2+3 is sharp as well, but there isn't a good valve aternate, so you just have to open the throat more and lip it down. Middle concert F on open is always going to be slightly sharp, but you can lip down or use 4th valve. Concert C and D (1st valve and Open respectively) are always going to be very flat (a trait of Yamaha euphs), you just have to lip it up as 1+3 and 1+2 are going to make it too sharp. 6th partial is very tame - so no constant 4th valve use or lipping down. Only exception is the high concert Eb on 1st valve that you have to lip down, but it lips down easily. Upper register can be slightly on the flat side (concert Ab and up).

Overall, give it some time to break in. Give it frequent wash outs and keep the valves oiled regularly. And enjoy!

Thanks for the info.
Must be something to do with how I play (because I was automatically lipping notes within the treble clef stave all the time on my york) or my mouthpiece (K&G 5D) but I seem to be a lot closer than your describing (using a snark tuner), certainly I don't have any notes that are "very flat". Once I'd tuned the main tuning slide for open valve positions I was left with every note either in tune or sharp. Once I had finished moving the other slides the only notes that were of any concern using the tuner were the bottom F, 6th partial F and above that the high Bb (all sharp). Switching to using my ears instead of the tuner the only note of any concern was the high Bb which is noticably sharp but i'm not too good with the high range so thats probably more down to me than the instrument.
The real test comes tonight when i play in the band (even have a solo item to run through), I may find myself pushing all the slides back in again if I've got it wrong!

I may still end up fitting one of these for security in the future but i'd have to have real issues with the tuning (I'm intriged that Yamaha may add a trigger - or is that a bit of sarcasm?): http://www.plbrassrepair.co.uk/mtp-e...er-system.html

[Ron6632]

Hi Guys

Only recently found the forum and enjoying having a potter about.

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd post here, as I'm considering purchasing a Neo. I've not had a play test yet as I'm only at the looking stage, and with the regional championships in March, I'm reluctant to change instrument so close to a contest.

Currently playing on a C.15 year old Meastro (642), the predecessor to the Neo. In general, I love the instrument, how it plays and the sound from it. There is a directness to the sound and depth that I prefer over the Sovereigns. There is a big "but" with it, though, which irritates me greatly (it may be down to the player too, to some extent) and that is the upper Ab concert (Bb treble) which is very flat and horrible to centre - it's a very "splittable" note on the instrument.

So, reading the thread, it seems this was an issue with older 642's - has it been resolved? I love yamahas (even bought a student model trombone which plays brilliantly) and the sound.

Over the years I've tried other instruments- prestige (which I played at work on the march) I hated, it felt like I was chucking huge amounts of air down it for very little out the bell, I couldn't get anywhere near the sound of the Meastro.

Courtios was very similar to the Prestige - only briefly play tested and wasn't keen, again I didn't like the tone (was a purchase for my nephew) and it was like blowing into a bucket.

Also oddly, when the Yamaha Custom came out I had a blow at a trade stand, and preferred my Meastro!

So, with the Neo, is there still an issue with 1st valve intonation and has it improved with the overhaul. More importantly, has there been any noticeable change to the tone of the instrument. I'll certainly want to have one on trial for a week or so before I make my mind up.

Cheers!

[booboo]

From what you've said I think you will love the neo. The short time I spent on it it seemed to be similar, but just 'better' all round than the maestro. It seems a little less direct and more 'british' sounding than the maestro, but still compact and very even through the range. I don't remember an issue with the ab, but the flatness you describe is pretty common on a lot of instruments. Most bessons are more in tune on 2/3 than 1 up there, although the slot is sometimes trickier.

[RickF]

Welcome to the forum Ron6632. You wrote...

Also oddly, when the Yamaha Custom came out I had a blow at a trade stand, and preferred my Meastro!

That’s not surprising to me. I remember some years ago that Don Palmire (now retired from US Army Band, “Pershing’s Own”) wrote that he had trouble being heard over the Band with the 842 and went back to his 642. Now that writing was from about 10 or 12 years ago on another forum so don’t know if it is still accurate.

[Ron6632]

Thanks for the replies.

I get the feeling that the custom, when I tried it, was designed to be a bit of a Prestige clone. It felt too "big" to blow through, if that makes any sense at all.

I remember when I bought the maestro that the feeling was the instrument was geared more for the US than U.K. Market (was it ever called Maestro in the US?) sound wise. I was playing mainly wind band back then so that wasn't an issue. I do like the sound which has nice depth, but there is also an edge there when needed that you don't really get with Bessons - sometimes have to be careful to not let it get raucous in very loud stuff. I'm looking forward to having a play on the Neo - even though I'm very fond of the Maestro - it's been through a lot!

As for Bessons - after bands started getting lottery grants the quality of the Sovereign became very hit and miss. I regret trading in an old Imperial Besson (the immediate forerunner I think) for a small belled Sovereign, which, quite frankly I hated. My marching euph in the army was an old battered sovereign which was dreadful too (it felt like playing a hose pipe). Ironically, the band I'm with at the moment has a silver Sovereign which is actually really nice to play!

[EuphoJon]

It's a long time since I tried a Meastro so I don't feel I can do a comparison to the Neo.

I can compare my Neo to the following though:
York Eminence
Besson Prestige & Sovereign
Sterling Virtuoso
Geneva Symphony & Cardinals

While all had their own subtle sound and playing characteristics, as a generalisation the reason I went for the Neo was that it takes less air to get the bell vibrating properly and is more responsive than the instruments listed above.
Plus the notes really slot (although in fast slurred passages I'm finding this makes it a touch more difficult), the tuning without a trigger is the best I have tried (but after almost a year playing it I think I'd still like a trigger), the upper range is a lot more accessable than on the other instruments and I really like the sound (its comparable to the sound you get from an Boosey Hawks Imperial but with much more projection and a fuller sounding bottom register).

If your going to try one bare in mind that it makes a big difference if the instrument is blown in. Mine is so much better now than it was when I 1st got it.

[booboo]

It's a long time since I tried a Meastro so I don't feel I can do a comparison to the Neo.

I can compare my Neo to the following though:
York Eminence
Besson Prestige & Sovereign
Sterling Virtuoso
Geneva Symphony & Cardinals

While all had their own subtle sound and playing characteristics, as a generalisation the reason I went for the Neo was that it takes less air to get the bell vibrating properly and is more responsive than the instruments listed above.
Plus the notes really slot (although in fast slurred passages I'm finding this makes it a touch more difficult), the tuning without a trigger is the best I have tried (but after almost a year playing it I think I'd still like a trigger), the upper range is a lot more accessable than on the other instruments and I really like the sound (its comparable to the sound you get from an Boosey Hawks Imperial but with much more projection and a fuller sounding bottom register).

If your going to try one bare in mind that it makes a big difference if the instrument is blown in. Mine is so much better now than it was when I 1st got it.

Great description, pretty much exactly how I remember and the comparison with the imperial is good. How do you find it in a full band? I thought it was a little restrictive in dynamic range, but that may have been lack of blowing in as you describe.

[cbz]

I recently sold my 642 (the 642 was never marketed as "Maestro" in the US) and bought a Neo from another forum member here. The Neo is still very new and isn't quite broken in yet. The Neo has a much sweeter sound and has a bit more resistance than my old 642. The higher register slots better for me on the Neo but I find I have to push it a bit more in the pedal register than I did on the 642.

I had no issues with my 642 and only sold it as I happened upon a local college student that was looking for a horn. I have always played Yamaha's so I thought I would go in a different direction. In the end, the deal I found on the Neo was too good to pass up. I am very happy with my Neo so I would encourage you to give it a try.

The new trigger model Neo's are out now so you might want to add that model to your shopping list as well.

Arul

[EuphoJon]

Great description, pretty much exactly how I remember and the comparison with the imperial is good. How do you find it in a full band? I thought it was a little restrictive in dynamic range, but that may have been lack of blowing in as you describe.

In a Brass band setting (British) I don't have an issue with it in general. I've played next to players on Soverigns, Prestiges and Yorks and blend nicely with them and can match them dynamically when the volume increases without any issues. I find the Neo far easier to play at softer dynamics so from that point of view I would say it gives me more dynamic range.

There is a but......at louder dynamics above the stave (and I have noticed this when I've been the only Euphonium in the band) I don't feel like I can be heard as well as I could when I used to play my York. I think it's just the difference in tone, the Neo blends really nicely with the rest of the band so I don't think it is as distinctive if you just pump more air in. I checked with the conductor when I first thought it wasn't projecting and he said it was coming across nicely so I don't think it is a problem - just maybe a little different.

What helped me to feel more confident about it was to stop trying to blow louder and instend to concerntrate more on the type of sound I wanted to produce in those situations (like I would at lower dynamics) and then think 'big sound'. I didn't have to do that on the York - I just pumped in the air and woosh out came a singing tone that could sit on top of the band.

My wife recorded me on a mobile phone playing the solo "Compelled by Love" and there was no problem with being heard over the band at any point, you can hear every note (which is slightly unfortunate as nerves got me a little when the dynamics started to increase and I threw in a wrong-un at one point) where as when I was playing I thought I was getting swamped at times.

I love the instrument, there is only one other Euphonium I might change to from my Neo and that's a Neo with a trigger and even then i'm hesitant because mine plays so well I keep thinking 'what if it's unique and other Neos aren't this good' .

[Cameron J.]

Hi Guys

Only recently found the forum and enjoying having a potter about.

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd post here, as I'm considering purchasing a Neo. I've not had a play test yet as I'm only at the looking stage, and with the regional championships in March, I'm reluctant to change instrument so close to a contest.

Currently playing on a C.15 year old Meastro (642), the predecessor to the Neo. In general, I love the instrument, how it plays and the sound from it. There is a directness to the sound and depth that I prefer over the Sovereigns. There is a big "but" with it, though, which irritates me greatly (it may be down to the player too, to some extent) and that is the upper Ab concert (Bb treble) which is very flat and horrible to centre - it's a very "splittable" note on the instrument.

So, reading the thread, it seems this was an issue with older 642's - has it been resolved? I love yamahas (even bought a student model trombone which plays brilliantly) and the sound.

Over the years I've tried other instruments- prestige (which I played at work on the march) I hated, it felt like I was chucking huge amounts of air down it for very little out the bell, I couldn't get anywhere near the sound of the Meastro.

Courtios was very similar to the Prestige - only briefly play tested and wasn't keen, again I didn't like the tone (was a purchase for my nephew) and it was like blowing into a bucket.

Also oddly, when the Yamaha Custom came out I had a blow at a trade stand, and preferred my Meastro!

So, with the Neo, is there still an issue with 1st valve intonation and has it improved with the overhaul. More importantly, has there been any noticeable change to the tone of the instrument. I'll certainly want to have one on trial for a week or so before I make my mind up.

Cheers!

Hi Ron,

I might chime in here because I currently own a Neo, and I have played on the Custom and Maestro as well. Yes, there is a problem with the high Ab concert on 1st valve. It seems to have been a trait on all Yamaha euphoniums I have played on. However, the Neo seems to be the best out of the lot in regard to the high Ab concert. It has taken me a while to get used to centering it, but it's getting better. However, the Neo is a significant improvement over the Maestro (tonal quality, intonation, ergonomic design). I never got on well with the Custom. As much as I tried to love it, it wouldn't love me back! I actually felt it played smaller then the Neo, and I found it very difficult for my sound to cut through a brass band or wind orchestra on the 842. The intonation was different (not bad, but just different from what I am used to on the Neo). The ergonomic design on the 3rd slide was nice to have, but you have to hold it up higher due to the shortened leadpipe. I also got sick of my 1st slide moving all the time - changing the intonation. I am not saying the Custom is a bad euphonium (the contrary, I think it is excellent). It is just that it didn't suit me and my style of playing. I agree that the Custom seems to be aimed more to the American market and the Neo aimed at the UK market - the Neo is the closest euphonium Yamaha have made to sounding like a Sovereign.

So yes, the intonation and centering on the 1st valve has improved over the Maestro, but still problematic. Give me a Sovereign anyday of the week for that note, but at least I can pitch a high concert B smack bang in the middle on the Neo. When I was testing out euphos, I found the Neo worked best for me (out of the new batch of Sovereigns and Genevas), because it didn't take as much air to fill the instrument then the Sovereign, and overall, the intonation is probably the best out of any professional grade euphonium without a trigger. The Neo also has a much closer tone to the Sovereign then what the Maestro does. However, I actually prefer the tone of the Custom. Overall, I am very happy with my Neo and I know it suits me well.