Yamaha Neo Opinions

[EuphoJon]

I have a vision! I'm thinking LED strips (tastefully arranged, of course).

I guess I could then connect to a tuner so that if a note is within 5 cents go green and if flat or sharp they could flash red. The way I play it would probably be a frequently changing display for the listener.

[DaveBj]

I guess I could then connect to a tuner so that if a note is within 5 cents go green and if flat or sharp they could flash red. The way I play it would probably be a frequently changing display for the listener.

I like it!

[Cameron J.]

So I've taken the plunge and ordered a Neo (lacquer). Should get it next week

I'm now working out how to customise the way it looks to make it more individual, currently thinking of accenting with black nickel or black lacquer.

You won't be disappointed. After having mine for a while, I seem to like it more and more. I'm getting more used to the slotting of certain notes as well as the intonation. The thing that still wins me over so many other makes and models is the consistency of tone and response throughout the range, as well as the ease of the upper register.

I'm even tempted to get some custom gold trim plating later down the track. Enjoy the instrument.

[EuphoJon]

Not a good start - the finish where the bell section has been soldered into the rest of the instrument was very untidy so mine has gone back and Its replacement is due next week.

On a related point I did give it a blow before I decided to send it back and it was nothing like as easy to play as the one I'd previously tested. The high register in particular was more difficult than most of the instruments I'd played previously (including my York) which was very disappointing. Is it just that it needed blown in or are they normally pretty good straight out of the case?

It's knocked my confidence a bit in the famous Yamaha consistency and I'm now starting to worry that I've made the wrong decision.

[davewerden]

I have always found that an instrument that is "played in" will feel and sound better. That was true for me with Bessons, Sterlings, and Adams (the only ones I've owned).

There may be one additional factor in your case. When you get the horn, pull the rear slide for the 1st valve. Put the 1st valve down and see if the valve posts line up accurately with the tube you are looking into. All the Yamaha euphoniums on display at last year's ITEC were not aligned because the felts under the valve buttons were too thick. So as I looked inside, the valve holes did not come down far enough. Apparently Yamaha does this because felts will thin as they are played over time (because they are getting "beaten down" to some extent). They do this so that the valves don't get misaligned on the low side.

[Cameron J.]

I have always found that an instrument that is "played in" will feel and sound better. That was true for me with Bessons, Sterlings, and Adams (the only ones I've owned).

There may be one additional factor in your case. When you get the horn, pull the rear slide for the 1st valve. Put the 1st valve down and see if the valve posts line up accurately with the tube you are looking into. All the Yamaha euphoniums on display at last year's ITEC were not aligned because the felts under the valve buttons were too thick. So as I looked inside, the valve holes did not come down far enough. Apparently Yamaha does this because felts will thin as they are played over time (because they are getting "beaten down" to some extent). They do this so that the valves don't get misaligned on the low side.

Thanks for the information on this. I happened to notice this on my new Neo. Should I look at putting thin felts on my valves to remedy this problem, or should it improve over time as the felts wear down? Would this in turn be affecting all 4 valves?

[Art Lewis]

In the 1990ies I had a Hirsbrunner, around 2000 a B&S, from 2008 on I´ve owned a Sterling Virtuoso and last year I bought the Yamaha Neo. Fit and finish, soldering, joints and silver plating are rather bad (my instrument maker said "crappy") on the Virtuoso. It looks "hand made" and not very consistent. But the sound and musical quality is outstanding! Next in craftmanship was my B&S, made in Markneukirchen (non comp., 3 Valves). Especially the quality of the lacquer fo the B&S was not very durable. The Hirsbrunner I liked a lot. But it developed zinc pest and the mechanics of the trigger were a bit complicated and made noise. The Yamaha Neo has the best overall craftmanship of all four Euphoniums i´ve owned. For solos in church I really do appreciate the elegant and smooth sound of the Neo. The Sterling´s sound melts nicely in our brassband. The Sterling is equipped with valves from Bauerfeind (a company now owned by Adams). Same on Hirsbrunner. These Valves are very good and lasting quality but the Yamaha´s have a shorter travel and feel faster. (BTW The valves line up precisely with the tube holes.)

[EuphoJon]

Not a good start - the finish where the bell section has been soldered into the rest of the instrument was very untidy so mine has gone back and Its replacement is due next week.

On a related point I did give it a blow before I decided to send it back and it was nothing like as easy to play as the one I'd previously tested. The high register in particular was more difficult than most of the instruments I'd played previously (including my York) which was very disappointing. Is it just that it needed blown in or are they normally pretty good straight out of the case?

It's knocked my confidence a bit in the famous Yamaha consistency and I'm now starting to worry that I've made the wrong decision.

So my replacement arrived last week. Have played it in our brass band practise without any concerns regarding it's sound so that puts my biggest concern to bed. This one plays very similar to the one I had previously tried, which is what I was hoping for. I'm just getting used to it now but loving it so far.
It did get me wondering if there had been a slight change in the manufacturing process as this instrument came with red felts (which I believe the older Neos have) where as the first one I was sent had white felts which I think would mean it is a later production Neo. Could be just coincidence that the first one I got didn't play as well for me.

Question for any Neo owners regarding tuning:
As this instrument has no tuning trigger I have been going through every valve position in a fairly systematic way to find the best compromise with the tuning slides (on my york I never adjusted the individual valve slides I just set the main tuning slide for the notes that I play on open, excluding the 6th partial F, then checked all the other valve positions were either close enough or sharp and used the tuning trigger to adjust where required).

I have ended up with the first and third valve tuning slides out about 1/2" to 3/4" and the second valve tuning slide all the way in. This seems to give me a pretty good balance using normal valve combinations so I can now tune the instrument just on the main tuning slide when I next play with our band. For someone who normally only uses the main tuning slide this seemed like a lot of adjustment to me. Does this seem normal or unusual to anyone else? Also I'm playing the dreaded high B natural on 3rd valve does anyone find any of the other alternatives better on the Neo?

I was looking for Daves guide to tuning (or tuning procedure) but the link to the article doesn't work anymore:

http://www.dwerden.com/blog3/display...3985E5D6F0F370

So here's how I did it (using the standard valve positions for each note and didn't tune for pedals):

Open position - main tuning slide first to get the best compromise for all open notes (Bb,F,Bb,D,F,Bb)..
1st valve - 1st valve slide to get the best compromise for all 1st valve only notes (Ab,Eb,Ab,C,Eb,Ab,)
2nd valve and 1/2 - 2nd valve slide, I didn't need to move this. Checked all notes that used either 2nd valve or both 1/2 together (G,A,D,E,G,A,B,Db,E,G,A).
2/3 valve combo - 3rd valve slide to get the best compromise for all notes that use 2/3 valve combination (Gb,Db,Gb and Gb).
4th Valve - 4th valve slide to get the best compromise for the F and C

[bbocaner]

I have ended up with the first and third valve tuning slides out about 1/2" to 3/4" and the second valve tuning slide all the way in. This seems to give me a pretty good balance using normal valve combinations so I can now tune the instrument just on the main tuning slide when I next play with our band. For someone who normally only uses the main tuning slide this seemed like a lot of adjustment to me. Does this seem normal or unusual to anyone else? Also I'm playing the dreaded high B natural on 3rd valve does anyone find any of the other alternatives better on the Neo?

I think that's fairly normal and most instruments are designed that way. The three Besson euphoniums I've owned have always been about 1/2" out on the first valve slide, 1/4" on the third, all the way in on the 2nd, and 1/2" on the fourth.

My Neo baritone YBH-831s seems to like about 5/8" out on the first valve slide, 1/8" on the third valve slide, and all the way in on the 2nd.

My Adams E3 is kind of strange, and seems to tune right all the way in on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, and about 1/4" on the first. It works, though.

[daruby]

My Adams E3 is kind of strange, and seems to tune right all the way in on the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, and about 1/4" on the first. It works, though.

My Adams E3 (with different valveset) is all in on 1st and 2nd, out 31/4" on 3rd and 3/8" on 4th.

[davewerden]

I am currently breaking in an E3. So far I like the slides set to:
1: in
2: in
3: pull 1/2" or a bit more
4: in

That's different from how I tune an E1.

[John Morgan]

Dave, you sly fox you. Have you just acquired an E3 (with absolutely no fanfare I might add)?

My E3 is pretty much like Doug and Dave's, athough my 4th slide is out a little like Doug's whereas Dave's is all in.

My main is out about 1/2 inch.

Tell us more about your E3, Dave!!!!!!!!!!! Pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!! Impressions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[davewerden]

Must...not....hijack.....thread............
Plus I'm visiting with relatives and have very limited time. More later in new thread

[EuphoJon]

I have ended up with the first and third valve tuning slides out about 1/2" to 3/4" and the second valve tuning slide all the way in. This seems to give me a pretty good balance using normal valve combinations so I can now tune the instrument just on the main tuning slide when I next play with our band. For someone who normally only uses the main tuning slide this seemed like a lot of adjustment to me.

....forgot to mention the 4th valve slide so complete line up is:

1 = 1/2"
2 = in
3 = 5/8"
4 = 5/8"

Main tuning slide currently 1/2" but that may change once I play with the band again, as I think the band tends to be sharp in general.

Just to go a bit off topic - be interesting to hear the different between you playing on the E1 to you playing on the E3 (once it's broken in) Dave.

[Cameron J.]

So my replacement arrived last week. Have played it in our brass band practise without any concerns regarding it's sound so that puts my biggest concern to bed. This one plays very similar to the one I had previously tried, which is what I was hoping for. I'm just getting used to it now but loving it so far.
It did get me wondering if there had been a slight change in the manufacturing process as this instrument came with red felts (which I believe the older Neos have) where as the first one I was sent had white felts which I think would mean it is a later production Neo. Could be just coincidence that the first one I got didn't play as well for me.

Question for any Neo owners regarding tuning:
As this instrument has no tuning trigger I have been going through every valve position in a fairly systematic way to find the best compromise with the tuning slides (on my york I never adjusted the individual valve slides I just set the main tuning slide for the notes that I play on open, excluding the 6th partial F, then checked all the other valve positions were either close enough or sharp and used the tuning trigger to adjust where required).

I have ended up with the first and third valve tuning slides out about 1/2" to 3/4" and the second valve tuning slide all the way in. This seems to give me a pretty good balance using normal valve combinations so I can now tune the instrument just on the main tuning slide when I next play with our band. For someone who normally only uses the main tuning slide this seemed like a lot of adjustment to me. Does this seem normal or unusual to anyone else? Also I'm playing the dreaded high B natural on 3rd valve does anyone find any of the other alternatives better on the Neo?

I was looking for Daves guide to tuning (or tuning procedure) but the link to the article doesn't work anymore:

http://www.dwerden.com/blog3/display...3985E5D6F0F370

So here's how I did it (using the standard valve positions for each note and didn't tune for pedals):

Open position - main tuning slide first to get the best compromise for all open notes (Bb,F,Bb,D,F,Bb)..
1st valve - 1st valve slide to get the best compromise for all 1st valve only notes (Ab,Eb,Ab,C,Eb,Ab,)
2nd valve and 1/2 - 2nd valve slide, I didn't need to move this. Checked all notes that used either 2nd valve or both 1/2 together (G,A,D,E,G,A,B,Db,E,G,A).
2/3 valve combo - 3rd valve slide to get the best compromise for all notes that use 2/3 valve combination (Gb,Db,Gb and Gb).
4th Valve - 4th valve slide to get the best compromise for the F and C

My Neo has red felts. I think the old ones have white felts because I tried a demo Neo model from around 2014/2015 and that had white felts. Mine is pretty much straight from the factory (so a late 2016 model) and it has red felts.

Give your instrument some time to break in. For example at first, my Neo experienced some tuning characteristic to the older Maestro models (very sharp concert D on 1+2). Plus the high concert Ab on 1st valve was a bit tricky to centre (absolutely horrible on my old Maestro - slightly improved on the Custom). I have now had my Neo for over a month and the tuning has improved (perhaps me getting more used to what notes are out). Plus the high Ab is now tame where it just centres well (still not as good as my old Besson Sovereign, but much better then the Custom and Maestro).

Regarding tuning, I have my first slide all the way in, second slide all the way in, third slide out about 1 cm, 4th slide out about 1 1/2 cm and tuning slide out anywhere from 1cm to 2 1/2 cm (depends on ensemble, temperature, acoustics etc.). I am still playing around with my tuning as well due to the fact I don't have the luxury of a trigger - however that may be a later addition by Yamaha itself There are still a few awkward notes - middle concert D is sharp on 1+2 (typical of Yamaha euphs) so I have to use 3rd valve, but I have gotten used to bringing 1+2 into tune. Middle concert Db on 2+3 is sharp as well, but there isn't a good valve aternate, so you just have to open the throat more and lip it down. Middle concert F on open is always going to be slightly sharp, but you can lip down or use 4th valve. Concert C and D (1st valve and Open respectively) are always going to be very flat (a trait of Yamaha euphs), you just have to lip it up as 1+3 and 1+2 are going to make it too sharp. 6th partial is very tame - so no constant 4th valve use or lipping down. Only exception is the high concert Eb on 1st valve that you have to lip down, but it lips down easily. Upper register can be slightly on the flat side (concert Ab and up).

Overall, give it some time to break in. Give it frequent wash outs and keep the valves oiled regularly. And enjoy!