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Thread: Kurun & Gilbert (K&G) Mouthpieces

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Lario View Post
    Hello. Can anybody tell me with certainty which measure of K&G is closest to the SM5? I asked the manufacturer directly and they naturally replied that the 5D has the same diameter as the SM5. It is actually smaller than the SM5 ...
    Based on my experience I would suggest the 4,5.
    Besson Prestige 2052,3D K&G mouthpiece;JP373 baritone,T4C K&G mouthpiece;Bach 42GO trombone,T4C K&G mouthpiece

  2. Quote Originally Posted by John Morgan View Post
    DutchEupho,

    I am curious about your switching to the K&G 3.5D. You have been a Demondrae mouthpiece user like me. I have used it ever since I got my Miraphone M5050, which is about 5 years or so. When I switched horns, to the Adams and the Wessex Dolce, I used the Demondrae on those horns, too. And I am still using it.

    I do have one thing peculiar that has started in the past several months. Sometimes, not always, when I play the in staff Eb concert and hold it, usually at softer dynamics, the note starts to become unstable and very raspy, and I actually lose the note (usually end up on another 1st valve note). This is the craziest thing. I have several other mouthpieces, so if I try them, I don't have this problem. Just with the Warburton Demondrae mouthpiece. And not always. It is almost like there is some strange vibration going on with that one note. And with that one mouthpiece. You know how when you maybe play a certain note in a particular room and it causes something to vibrate?

    I am considering trying the K&G 3.5D. How would you characterize it in comparison to the Demondrae (which I really like in spite of this peculiar happening with Eb)? Is the K&G 3.5D similarly sized to the Demondrae? Where did you buy yours from, directly from the K&G website? Thanks in advance for your response.

    John
    Hi John,

    I must say that I think that the issue you have with the Eb is probably not because of the Mouthpiece. It’s just more “there” with the Demondrae. What I do in such cases is lay down the horn for a few days and when playing again I definitely try not to focus on the “trouble” note(s). If I’d suspect vibration from within the instrument I’d check all springs (and trigger connections) and re-lubricate the trigger.
    Also if 1 mouthpiece resonates certain notes better in combo with your euph this could actually make stuff in rooms resonate with it. Is the effect also there in different rooms?

    As for the difference between the K&G and the Demondrae:

    K&G states on the website that the 3.5D has a inner dim of 26.4 (that would be comparable to a SM3, SM3U, 3AL) but to me it feels more in-between the 4 and 3AL sizes. So pretty close to the size of the Demondrae. The Demondrae’s rim is much wider and a bit more round (that’s probably why it feels so comfortable). The K&G is a little bit deeper and a bit more “U” shaped.
    Why did I try the K&G? first of all because I’m always eager to try new euph stuff. Second of all was that I’d like my articulations a bit more crisp.

    So here is my comparisson of the 2:
    Warburton Demondrae:
    + Comfort
    + Endurance
    + High range sound
    - Articulation
    - feels a bit limited in flexibility

    K&G 3.5D:
    - a bit less endurance (at the start, is increasing now)
    + articulation
    + sound across the entire range
    + supports the high (and extreme high) register better
    + warm / mellow sound
    + more focused sound
    + better flexibility


    I’ve tried to mention differences between the 2 mpc’s but they are not really that different in how. they play (to me). The K&G just makes things a bit more easy for me.
    I bought my K&G from Thomann (big company in Europe). According to K&G website: Dillon Music is a dealer in the USA.

    I’d say give it a try and if it’s not your thing sell it via this forum. It’s a frequently asked mouthpiece so you’d have no trouble getting it sold.
    Last edited by DutchEupho; 05-06-2019 at 02:16 AM.
    Euphonium: Adams E3 Custom Series (SS Bell)
    Trombone: Benge 175F


  3. #43
    Thanks, DutchEupho,

    The peculiar note only happens with the Demondrae mouthpiece, room doesn't make a difference. If I use any of a dozen other mouthpieces I have, I do not experience this weird note phenomena at all. I have been playing a ton lately, so this might have brought the propensity for this to happen to the forefront, but I have never experienced anything like this before in all 50 plus years of playing. I am through with a bunch of my groups for a while, so I will be slacking off some on the playing. I will see how things are with a lighter practice routine.

    Thanks for the info and comparison of the two mouthpieces, the Demondrae and K&G 3.5D. I think I will get one of these and see how I like it. And I am sure you are right about reselling if its not for me.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  4. John,

    Would like to know your thoughts on the K&G once you've given it a good trial period.
    Euphonium: Adams E3 Custom Series (SS Bell)
    Trombone: Benge 175F


  5. #45
    DutchEupho,

    Will do. I checked Dillon's and they are out of stock for the 3.5D. Ordering from Thomann is pretty pricey with a huge shipping cost to come from Europe. Dillon's is supposed to email me when they have it in stock.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  6. #46
    Need to post more love for my K&G 3.5D - I've been playing on it now for two years (bought 2nd hand on these forums here) and every day I seem to fall in love with it more. Of all the mouthpieces I've ever played (and I have NOT played the Demondrae piece) it comes the CLOSEST to being the "everything" mouthpiece for me. My best summary is 90% of the Wick singing sound for 200% more endurance. I also am a player who uses a LOT of mouthpiece pressure, not for any particular reason than bad habits, and this is probably why I can last longer on this MP. It feels smaller on my face than a Wick 4AL despite being bigger.

    One thing that has happened recently though - I dropped inside the Bonna case (actually it feel out of the back of my van and onto the pavement) and the bell was crinkled. Had Scott Mandeville at Tim's Music in Sacramento fix it up but ever since then the horn has developed a vibration with the K&G on Middle Bb (whole step below Middle C). I took it back to Scott and when the horn was dropped, something moved out of place with the AGR and now I have this buzz. Thick grease seems to help but apparently the K&G shank is a bit different than standard shanks (like the Wick which doesn't exhibit this problem) and doesn't fit 100% flush inside the Adams AGR.

    So I bought Brandon Jones' Neo with Trigger and will see if this horn works for me with this MP - that's how much I love the MP. I am willing to part with my Adams E3 to make the MP work.
    Yamaha Neo w/Trigger, Lacquer
    K&G 3.5D

  7. #47
    Jake,

    Hmm. Seems odd that the AGR would cause this, when it had not caused it previously. It seems more likely that the wire inside the bell rim is vibrating. It is not soldered, and if bell has been reworked the wire could cause vibration. The bell may need its crimp tightened.

    A different mouthpiece could produce more resonance on a given note and cause enough extra vibration in the horn that it makes the bead buzz.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  8. #48
    Well the grease in and around the AGR fixes the problem - so it's possible but this is what the tech diagnosed as the issue and he knows about the bell rings and is a master brass technician - we briefly considered this as the source of my vibration back when I had the Geneva. I will say I bought the Yamaha before I took it to him regarding the buzz, so we'll see how the two horns sound, etc. The point though was I was willing to throw away the Adams to keep the MP lol
    Yamaha Neo w/Trigger, Lacquer
    K&G 3.5D

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
    Posts
    3,187
    Iím now intrigued about the K&G mpc after reading some of these reviews. Like Jake, I too tend to use too much pressure when playing... especially toward the end of a two-hour concert. I donít think the 3.5 will work for me because of its size. The Wick 4AL never worked for me (too wide of a rim), and the Demondrae mpc sounds great on my M5050 but the throat is too large for me (sucks even more air out of me). I think what might work for me is something around a 4.5 AL equivalent. Iím currently using the Warburton Brandon Jones model. It works really well for me but Iíd like a bit more endurance. I wonder what size I should consider? Thanks for any suggestions.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton Brandon Jones sig mpc
    YEP-641S (on long-term loan to grandson)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    When the Saints Go Marching In (arr. Mashima) at ACB Conference Ft. Lauderdale
    Cell phone video of : El Cumbanchero:

  10. Quote Originally Posted by RickF View Post
    I’m now intrigued about the K&G mpc after reading some of these reviews. Like Jake, I too tend to use too much pressure when playing... especially toward the end of a two-hour concert. I don’t think the 3.5 will work for me because of its size. The Wick 4AL never worked for me (too wide of a rim), and the Demondrae mpc sounds great on my M5050 but the throat is too large for me (sucks even more air out of me). I think what might work for me is something around a 4.5 AL equivalent. I’m currently using the Warburton Brandon Jones model. It works really well for me but I’d like a bit more endurance. I wonder what size I should consider? Thanks for any suggestions.
    I'm in a similar position. The Demondrae MP has a beautiful dark and open sound but it requires a lot of work and endurance. I substituted it in favor of a Parker 4G MP that I constructed at NABBA this year that matched up well with my Sterling, and so far I'm pretty satisfied (I have some slotting issues that I'm working on but I think it's due to myself still getting used to a smaller MP).
    James Kircoff
    Genesee Wind Symphony - principal euphonium (Adams E3 Custom .60mm yellow brass bell w/ Parker 4G Houser)
    Capital City Brass Band (2019 NABBA 2nd section champions) - 1st baritone (Besson BE956 w/ Denis Wick 6BY) and 10 piece ensemble (Getzen 1052FD bass trombone w/ Bach 1G)

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