Looking to buy soon Adams vs. Besson Prestige vs. Sterling Virtuoso Delux (OPINIONS!)

[daruby]

...Perhaps mine was made with magic dust, but it just continues to amaze and thrill me.

Dunno about "made with magic dust", but after seeing the trim and engraving on your horn, Captain John, I am sure it was "sprinkled with magic dust". You have a beautiful horn!

[John Morgan]

Thanks, Doug! Me thinks you are going to grow very fond of your Adams. With all the crap going on in the world today, isn't it nice to just play a little euphonium music??? I think you demoted me, too, but Captain Morgan was a pirate, so a pirate playing an Adams is pretty cool.

[bdawley81]

Amen John! Quick question: does the e3 have good response? I only ask since it it's a heavier instrument. Correct me if I'm wrong. Right now I'm 50/50 between the Sterling and Adams. Also, would you suggest weighted valve caps? Feel free to jump in Doug and Dave. I'm not positive how much difference it makes.

[daruby]

The E2 is the heaviest of the three models. The E2 comes standard in a fixed configuration with weighted caps top and bottom, heavy bell, and plays "heavy" like a Miraphone 5050. The E1 and E3 can be customized more readily than the E2, with all of the bell options. The E3 is "bigger" sounding than the E1 and was developed with Matt Van Emmerick with brass banding in mind. It is not necessarily heavier than an E1.

I do NOT recommend weighted valve caps with the E1 or E3. I tried my E3 with weighted caps off of my Sterling and found that the horn sounded dead. It is much livelier without.

The E3 has GREAT response. In fact responsiveness is one of the characteristics of most Adams horns. (I will note however the same is true with my Sterling Virtuoso). Tonight my seat mate in my community band tried my Adams (he normally plays a Yamaha 641). His comment was that it was "easier" blowing than his 641, meaning it was very responsive.

Doug

[bdawley81]

Thanks again Doug. You've been a huge help. My Friday play test with the Sterlings will be a big help. Just for comparison sake, I have someone locally who is letting me play on their prestige. I just want to be sure. I don't doubt that I will love an Adams. It sounds like I would steer towards an e3 Adams if I indeed go that way.

[John Morgan]

Amen John! Quick question: does the e3 have good response? I only ask since it it's a heavier instrument. Correct me if I'm wrong. Right now I'm 50/50 between the Sterling and Adams. Also, would you suggest weighted valve caps? Feel free to jump in Doug and Dave. I'm not positive how much difference it makes.

The response on my E3 is excellent. Plays remarkably well at soft and loud levels, low and high and in between. You just think the note and it sounds. You feel the note resonating in the horn. It feels as if the horn is an extension of your body. I don't have any weighted valve caps, but the 1-3 caps are heavier than what I am used to for standard valve caps, just a little heftier.

The sound and resonance of the horn is wonderful, if not somewhat hard to describe. I have played certain notes on other horns, a low concert D (1-2) in the BC staff on a Besson, for example, and it just did not have a nice resonance or a "vibration" through the horn. On the Adams, that note just sings and rings and feels resonant and I can "feel" it. Most, I say again, most all notes on the Adams give me the same response - resonant, and I feel the note through the horn. There is a nice euphonium solo of "Some Enchanted Evening" that I played recently. The first line (some enchanted evening) ends on a low concert Bb (2nd line in BC staff). That note sounds utterly glorious. It just sings like crazy. Playing the horn in a big room is where it really shines. My director and band mates tell me all the time how beautiful this horn sounds. To me, the sound is the single most important aspect of the horn, and I have not found an equal to this horn. You really have to try the horn to experience what I am describing. I found much of this almost immediately after getting the horn, but some of it I grew into as I became familiar with the horn and its playing capabilities and characteristics. I think the consistent gauge of the metal makes a difference. In other horns when the metal is shaped, the metal is stretched so that some of it is thinner than other parts of the metal. Adams uses sheet metal and keeps the metal thickness basically constant throughout. I think the adjustable gap receiver is also a feature that leads to really fine tuning (not necessarily pitch) the horn for response and slotting.

It really would be useful to try an Adams or two (or more). If I had doubts and was really wanting to make the right choice, I would find a way to get to some Adams.

Here is my review with many pictures of my Adams E3 in two parts:

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...e#.WNyQD2w2zIU

http://www.dwerden.com/forum/showthr...o#.WNyQLmw2zIU

I have only once in my life played on a Sterling. It was short and in a place where I couldn't hear myself think. I believe it sounded nice and there was nothing about the horn that was a negative for me. I just couldn't hear well, and I only played it for a couple minutes or so. It is certainly one I would like to have had a better playing opportunity on. I could not faithfully compare the Sterling to my Adams. But I can compare my Adams to a Besson 967, a Besson 2052, a Yamaha 842S, a Miraphone M5050 (my 2nd most favorite horn ever), a Hirsbrunner (nice horn), a Wessex Dolce (best horn for the least money), a B&H 1956 Imperial, and whatever else I forgot or played in middle school and high school. The Adams wins in every comparison with all of these horns. Not even close on most. But, this is my opinion, for what it is worth. Others will have their opinions.

[BDeisinger]

Custom tubas sent me a price list on the Sterling and if budget concerns are part of your decision, the Sterling is a pretty good buy right now. I've tried the Sterlings and I agree with Doug about the instrument.

[bdawley81]

I live near Custom Music. I am playing on a sterling this Friday.

[bdawley81]

...I'll add this, but it's maybe old news from 2012: Toward the end of my relationship with Custom I had some very painful experiences from a business point of view. However, I have not heard that customers have had such problems - my problems had to do with the Sterling Artist relationship, so that's unique. Nonetheless it is not nice to feel bullied by an entity with deeper pockets than I have.

What went down between you and Custom? Just curious. If you care not to say, no problem...

[bbocaner]

I bought a yellow brass E3 and have had a sterling E1 on loan for the past several weeks while my E3 was getting fixed. I've played the E2 a handful of times. Here are my thoughts:

- the E1 plays small. It's not bad, but I personally like a more British timbre.
- the E2 has a bigger sound but it's not very colorable. It's a nice sound, but it's very consistent in articulations and tone color across dynamics in the same way that the Willson is.
- the E3 has the biggest sound of all of them and I find it to be easier to play, the high notes lock on easier and the slots are more comfortable and it's the most flexible.

I HATE the AGR. I feel like there's a very narrow window where it plays well, and it seems to be prone to rattles and leaking if it's not super tight, and the whole assembly is not very solid and wobbles on the instrument, I feel like I'm going to break it! I'm very glad I ordered my E3 with a standard receiver.

Though I've seen some Adams instruments that were flawless, I've heard a lot about "rustic" quality finish work and final assembly from Adams lately, including my own instrument as well as, to a lesser extent, the loaner I'm currently playing. Growing pains, perhaps? The good news is that I think they have a really good attitude about it and are willing to go the extra mile to make it right. I'm still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this. Fingers crossed!!

I traded in my 2011 german-made Prestige 2052 for the Adams. I think the Prestige sounds most like the E1. I think the Prestige has slicker and lighter valves and feels like less work to play, but I actually feel like I play cleaner on the technical stuff on the Adams, so it may be psychological! The intonation is very difficult on the Besson, even though it's far better than the older ones were. The finish quality, slide alignment, all the final assembly stuff is really excellent on modern Bessons.

I don't have much playing time on Sterlings. They seem to be really nice instruments and I love the sound, especially of the yellow-belled models. From the limited playing I've done, I've never fallen in love with a Sterling like I have with the other two marques.

[daruby]

A quick note.

One of the really BIG differences between the E3 and the E1/E2 or my Sterling for that matter is the shape of the bell. While the rim size of the E3 is not overly large, the throat is of the bell is huge. On my Sterling, my Best Brass practice mute sticks out past the end of the bell about 1/2". On the E3, it drops down into the bell and is recessed by at least 1".

Doug

[MichaelSchott]

Could we meet up sometime, so I could noodle around on the Prestige? That would help me immensely!

I think there's some confusion. Ken Kroesche has the Prestige, not I. I play a Willson 2900. By the way I also live in Farmington Hills.

[EuphoJon]

However, the Sterling is a very heavy horn and requires use of the left hand trigger for pitch in the 6th partial and a couple of other notes.

Doug

Doug (or any other Sterling/ex-Sterling owners), is a Sterling without a trigger pretty much a no no. I use my trigger on my York Eminence for Eb, E, F and G (concert pitch) but was hoping my next instrument wouldn't need one. Also do you consider the newer valve block an issue? Lastly I've got a trip down to the factory booked in, in a couple of weeks and want to make the most of my time there so any advice?

[bdawley81]

Thanks Michael. I misunderstood. I contacted Ken. Just waiting to hear back.

[davewerden]

Sterling without a trigger:

I would not be comfortable with that. It was marginally better on the 6th partial, in my experience, compared to my Besson Sovereign, but I would still need to use alternate fingerings.