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Thread: New Small Shank Mouthpiece

  1. New Small Shank Mouthpiece

    Hey all, I'm looking to upgrade my mouthpiece. I currently play on a Yamaha YEP-321 euphonium and the standard SL 48 mouthpiece that comes with it, but all the best-fit mouthpieces seem to be large or medium shank only. I can go up to a price of around $120-$100, and am looking for something that can help improve my intonation, tone clarity in the high and low registers, and possibly increase my range, though the last one isn't super necessary.

  2. #2
    Welcome to the forum!

    I encourage other to chime in, because my experience with mouthpieces and the 321 is pretty far back. But I have in mind 3 choices that would improve things for you. For background, the cup diameter of your Yamaha 48 is about 25.25mm.

    The first, and easiest to adjust to, is the Bach 5G. I will open your tone a bit and deepen it. The 5G has a diameter of 25.5mm.
    https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Small-Tr.../dp/B0002E2BBA

    For a more open sound, but requiring more time to get used to, is the Denis Wick 4BS. Its diameter is about 25.9mm.
    https://www.amazon.com/Denis-Wick-DW.../dp/B000CDU26W

    For a really open and deep sound, the Wick 4AY is a very good choice, and is what Dr. Paul Droste used for a while when he was playing the 321. The "Y" indicates it was intended for the Yamaha. The "A" means the cup is deeper than the 4BS. Diameter is about 26mm. This would require the most time for acclimation. When I used to play a Bach 5G (on a Besson) I found it a pretty big jump to the Wick 4A, so I started with the 4B. But many have made the jump right to the 4A.
    https://www.amazon.com/Denis-Wick-Si.../dp/B003CTI0SA

    (The last letter in the Denis Wick line indicates shank size. Your Yamaha is a small shank, and the Wick uses Y or S to indicate that. My Besson was a large shank, which gets the "L".)
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  3. I haven't tried it on a Y321, but I like my Schilke 51D for my small-shank horns. It's about the same diameter as the Bach 5G but a little deeper.

  4. #4
    The 51D works well on most horns, including the 321. In fact, that is what Dr. Droste used on his 321 before switching to the Denis Wick 4AY:

    https://www.amazon.com/Schilke-Stand.../dp/B001J7A9F4

    It has a 25.5mm diameter and a deep cup.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  5. I've played a 321 for 40+ years. The 51d would be a fine choice. For a long time I used a Perantucci PT4, which is a variation on the 51d designed by Lucas Spiros when he played with the Marine Band. It has a rounder rim than the 51d and a much larger bore. It's a good mouthpiece if your tone concept is a bit more toward "tenor tuba" than "Child's Brothers." I think the Wick 4ay or SM4B are a bit unfocused sounding on the 321, at least when I play them.

    A year and a half ago I started using a Giddings and Webster Kadja. It seems to have all the qualities I liked with the PT4 but with a warmer sound and more low register presence. I like the rim, too. It's on the narrow side but very comfortable. The stainless steel seems to help with that. I recommend it highly, but, of course, your mileage will vary.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS View Post
    I think the Wick 4ay or SM4B are a bit unfocused sounding on the 321, at least when I play them.
    I suspect you would hear the same thing if I played a 51D and Wick 4AY on the 321. However, part of that is what your personal concept of tone is. Personally, I like a more open, singing tone, and the Wicks give me that. I think that is why Dr. Droste switched as well. But I greatly admire the 51D's centered tone through all ranges. I thought about going that direction for a while (a few decades ago), but my complaint was that I could not get as much range of tone color as I wanted.

    IMO, any of the mouthpieces discussed above would make some players happy, but any one player may have a preference. Ideally you would try them out first, but I know that is downright tough in many locations (most, probably).
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. I've been playing my trusty 321S since 1979 and have tried just about every "common" small shank mouthpiece but I always end up coming back to my Giardinelli 4D. It gives me a certain "wabi-sabi" factor that I really like. I believe it is 25.4mm, similar to a Bach 6 1/2 AL. Unfortunately, they're no longer being made but you might see one occasionally on EBAY. My second choice is the Alliance 6S and my third choice would be the Bach 5GS. As you've probably read, mouthpieces are a highly subjective and personal choice. I caution you however, that trying different mouthpieces is fun and somewhat addictive. Be careful that you don't end up with a box full of mouthpieces in your closet that you never use...like some of us! ;-)
    Last edited by FedXav8r; 03-27-2017 at 10:19 AM.
    1979 Yamaha 321S Euphonium
    1965 Conn 7G/6H Valve Trombone
    2014 Wessex BR140 Baritone

  8. On the way to a 51D, I had good intonation and response using the slightly smaller Schilke 50 - the 51D's "lil' brother." It is about the same size as a Bach 6 1/2 AL, but has the more funnel-ish cup of the 51D, and a hair larger throat than a 6 1/2 AL that matches the Yammy 321 well.

    Edit:
    The 6 1/2 AL is a good mouthpiece, although since it is essentially a trombone mouthpiece, for me the lower register is a little grainy.

    For my Wessex BR115 Bell-front, I purchased a Wick SM6 Ultra baritone mouthpiece. It has everything that the OP is looking for, and in addition, the low range is smoother due to the deeper cup. Imagine a 6 1/2 AL but with a deeper cup. That is the SM6 Ultra.

    The other Wick baritone mouthpieces have different cups and throat diameters, so I cannot extrapolate the performance of my mouthpiece to others.

    Another mouthpiece I have used, which sounds good on American .561 bore instruments, is the System Blue baritone mouthpiece, when they were made by King. But it is an extreme funnel, and may be too dark for the 321.
    Last edited by iiipopes; 04-01-2017 at 10:15 PM.

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