Learning Tenor Clef and finding material to practice on

[davewerden]

Time for me to confess. I also learned bass clef via transposition, and I read tenor as a treble-clef position with bass clef accidentals.

But I have found that after years of playing BC via transposing, I now just recognize it at sight. Same with tenor, although I need to do it now and then to keep that one fresh in my brain - it does not turn up often in my current life. The "downside" is that I think of the notes as the treble-clef note, no matter what clef I'm playing. So when I play a BC middle C, my fingers, chops, and brain are all agreed that I'm playing a C on the horn. To me that makes its own kind of sense, and tightens my relationship with the instrument. So the open note is a C, rather than a Bb (like the piano white-key concept). I know it's goofy but it works for me.

I DID have a few teachers tell me to just learn BC as its own clef. I even tried, but my brain did not want to go there.

If you want even more insight into my inner workings, I have a mild form of pitch memory. So my brain associating everything in any clef to one pitch reference (my treble-clef memory) makes it a little easier to be accurate. When I sing hymns in church I even find my pitch memory can help. So if I'm singing melody from the treble clef part, I mentally transpose it up a step as if I were reading from a piano score for my euphonium. That makes it easier for me to sing the melody, especially there there are intervals and I'm not familiar with the melody.

[daruby]

So Dave, you are just opposite me. Bb Treble Clef is your "native language" and you "think" in Bb transposed pitches. I actually started on piano at age 7 before picking up baritone at age 9. I think in concert pitch in either tenor or bass clef but lost my concert pitch treble reading along the way somehow. I still visualize piano keys when doing scales. At my age, everything is visual and muscle memory and learning new stuff is REALLY, REALLY hard.

[davewerden]

Doug, your comment reminded me of the primary drawback of thinking my way. Playing piano is REALLY a challenge! No problem for my right hand, but when my left hand reaches out for the written middle C it is going to want to hit a D (because that's the mental note I associate with a BC C). That'll turn a person's brain in circles!

[DaveBj]

I don't really have anything intelligent to add to this discussion, but that won't stop me from putting my oar in

I originally learned bass clef. At some point in my high school years (and I don't remember why), I learned treble clef, but there wasn't any transposition and adding flats; I just started with "middle C = low Bb" and went from there. The transfer to tenor clef wasn't bad, as long as the music wasn't that hard. However, I'm currently working on a solo (2nd and 3rd movements of Derek Bourgeois's Concerto for Trombone. He wrote it with no key signature and a LOT of accidentals, and the solo part switches back and forth between tenor and bass clef. That combination of factors makes it REALLY hard for someone like me -- I would be reading and playing, and thinking, "Dang it, pick one and stick with it." Finally I went with the treble clef part -- much easier. No key signature is concert Bb, which means a lot of the accidentals disappear, and no swapping clefs around. The only problem was that there had been a really sloppy job of editing, and there were at least a half dozen places where the accidentals were wrong. But once I got that straightened out, it's a much easier read.

[John Morgan]

Doug, your comment reminded me of the primary drawback of thinking my way. Playing piano is REALLY a challenge! No problem for my right hand, but when my left hand reaches out for the written middle C it is going to want to hit a D (because that's the mental note I associate with a BC C). That'll turn a person's brain in circles!

I think my clef history is more closely related to Dave's. I started on trumpet and treble clef and 2 years later switched to baritone in 8th grade. When I got to high school (9th grade), I started to learn bass clef. Mainly because the two others in my section, 2 and 3 years older than me, played bass clef. I became equally proficient in both clefs. It wasn't until much later on that I learned tenor, then alto clef.

I think like Dave with tenor. I consider it treble clef with a bass clef key signature and accidentals. Tenor clef was pretty easy after knowing the other two. Alto clef was just a matter of getting used to where middle C was on the staff and going from there. It is the clef I have the least experience with (only on trombone in orchestra music - but I mostly now play bass trombone, so no alto clef, only when I play the 1st trombone part).

I think I share exactly the convoluted "thinking" that Dave might have when playing piano music on the piano. I can read and play the treble clef line fine, I have to really think with the bass clef line.

Now, when playing my horn using music from a hymnal, I can directly play the bass clef part without even thinking, but I have to "transpose" the treble clef part up a whole step (since piano is in C and my horn in Bb).

So, the conundrum is that I can play piano music on the treble clef side fine (when I am actually playing the piano), but I have to think about the bass clef part; conversely, I can play the bass clef line of piano music fine on my horn, but have to transpose and think about the treble clef line.

Now, if someone had just made all instruments in the same key and with one clef........

[DaveBj]

I played accordion and piano before I started learning euphonium; this thread is the first I've ever heard of clef differentiation being a problem while playing piano.

[ydave]

All very interesting....
i think I'm like Dave
-i read treble
-tenor is read as treble but with two sharpes added / two flats taken away
-bass I learnt to read by seeing where the treble clef notes are and again with two sharpes added / two flats taken away
accidentals aren't a problem you just get used to it. In my youth I remember just getting used to bass clef in wind band playing and not having to think about it. But now just playing in brass bands bass clef is a rare thing i only see if asked to play bass trombone.
CONFESSION: Bass trombone is my favourite instrument! I love the sound and versatility of it......but the parts are lousy!

[DaveBj]

I had totally forgotten about this -- a useful tool for learning tenor clef is David Vining's Rangesongs for Euphonium. He switches to tenor clef in the higher ranges, and they aren't technically difficult.