Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: "Old" Wick 4AL vs. "New" Wick 4AL

  1. #11
    Yep. My old 3AL is completely different than the new classic denis Wick 3 AL. Rim seems really bigger.
    Flexibiliy and high range is different. It has turned more in a bass trombone mouthpiece it seems. Hope i can find someplace or somebody
    to sell an oldie as spare. Have over 65 euph mouthpieces all derived from the Mother mouthpiece it seems, but been playing on my old3AL again. Back to the start.

  2. #12
    Old 4ALs are pretty inconsistent amongst themselves. I remember when I bought one in the early 1990s, I tried a few in the music store and they were wildly different from each other. I remember Doug Elliott's old printed brochures used to have a rim comparison chart in it. Under the 102 column it said 4AL. Under the 103 column it said 4AL. Under the 104 column it said "believe it or not, some 4ALs are this big."

    These days it's all CNC I'm sure.
    --
    Barry

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    1. DW originally started out on trombone mouthpieces (and mutes) in the late 1960's since he is a trombone player (as is DE). But by the time the Sovereign came out in 1974, the 4AL became standard issue replacing the truly awful Besson 10 that came stock on earlier medium shank horns. The 3AL/4AL (emphasis on the A cup depth) have always tended toward being euph mouthpieces. They tend to be "tubby" on trombone. I'd think someone wanting a 26mm or 26.4mm rim size on trombone would go for a B sized cup, 3BL or 4BL.
    Mr. Wick apparently designed the 4AL as his own personal trombone mouthpiece. I played the 4AL for many years on trombone myself even though it has never worked well for me on euphonium. I find the 4AL to be a very good trombone mouthpiece, even though I feel like the 51D is too tubby on trombone. 4BL is way too bright for orchestral trombone. We all respond to different equipment in different ways, though!
    --
    Barry

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    659
    I regularly play on either an SM-4 or 3, depending on the chart.

    I tried an SM-4U, but it actually wore my chops to bleed after an hour...

    Still looking for my personal holy grail!

    >>Maybe the new one from Mr. Ruby will be it<<

    d
    3 notes and the truth.

    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, early model Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

  5. #15
    I would venture to say that life is a journey, and playing euphonium is part of the (my) journey. As we mature and then as we age, we change. I would imagine it is not unusual to change mouthpieces along the way. I know I have. What I played when young (a long time ago) was different from what I played in the U.S. Army Band, and what I play today is different from what I played 10 years ago. And if you play a lot (as I do), your mouthpiece choice may be different from those who don't. I use the Demondrae signature mouthpiece (that came with the Miraphone M5050), although I do have a 4AL and others floating around somewhere. I absolutely love the sound I get with my current mouthpiece, and do not think I will change, but who knows. I do have to keep my playing up, spend the time that is, to maintain the sound I like with this mouthpiece. The 4AL, the subject of this thread, is a nice mouthpiece, but for me, it is a tiny bit on the "small" side for my liking. But it works great for others.
    John Morgan
    The U.S. Army Band (Pershing's Own) 1971-1976
    Adams E3 Custom Series Euphonium, Wessex EP-100 Dolce Euphonium, 1956 B&H Imperial Euphonium
    Adams TB1 Tenor Trombone, Yamaha YBL-822G Bass Trombone
    Wessex TE-360 Bombino Eb Tuba
    Rapid City New Horizons & Municipal Bands (Euphonium)
    Black Hills Symphony Orchestra (Bass Trombone), Powder River Symphony, Gillette, WY (Tenor Trombone)
    Black Hills Brass Quintet (Tuba)

  6. Quote Originally Posted by daruby View Post
    Hi all,

    I have used a Denis Wick 4AL for at least 35 years as my "every day" mouthpiece. My first Wick 4AL (which I still have) came with my 1980 "Boosey & Hawkes" Sovereign (Round Stamp). Of late, I have been playing one or the other of two that I purchased within the last 6 years. The 37 year old 4AL is a very different mouthpiece than the modern version of the same. I was asked by another forum member what the differences are between the two and so I took some pictures.

    Side by Side: Not a lot of difference in this view. As far as the labeling, the new one says DENIS WICK.LONDON while the older says DENIS WICK.LONDON (notice the period in a different location). The "4AL" is a smaller character size on the older mouthpiece.

    Attachment 4943

    Rim Size:

    These are both 26mm rims and feel pretty close to the same size, but notice the rim depth difference. The new 4AL has a much deeper lip around the rim.

    Attachment 4944

    Cup Depth

    I tried the old "quarter in the cup" test and find a significant difference. I believe that the two mouthpieces have the same cup shape relative to the throat of the mouthpiece, but the thicker lip on the new mouthpiece extends the effective cup depth. As you can see, the quarter sticks up more out of the cup on the old mouthpiece.

    Attachment 4945Attachment 4946

    Feel

    The shallower effective depth on the old mouthpiece and a slightly sharper edge to the rim of the mouthpiece makes it feel a little more brittle and somewhat less "pillowy" in sound. Articulation is a bit easier, though and slotting might be just a bit better. Also, while I rarely notice any fuzz when playing any Wick mouthpiece, the old mouthpiece definitely has no trace. The new mouthpiece feels softer and the sound is a bit more to my preference. I have to work just a bit harder with it, but it doesn't cut into the lips as much when I get tired and use too much pressure.

    That's it,

    Doug
    So now we have the quarter in the cup test for depth, has anyone devised a test for comparing inner rim sharpness ?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Richmond, TX
    Posts
    20
    "Articulation is a bit easier, though and slotting might be just a bit better."

    Just wondering, what is "slotting"?
    Thanks

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    659
    Playing a note very close to proper pitch, first time, every time.

    Some horns do it well, others have a couple notes that need 'work' to play true.

    DDG
    3 notes and the truth.

    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, early model Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

  9. #19
    SLOTTING: open you horn's main water key and play a few notes. That's what bad slotting feels like!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams E3, Denis Wick 4AL (classic)
    Instructor of Euphonium and Tuba
    Twitter: davewerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    YouTube: dwerden
    Owner of TubaEuph.com, DWerden.com

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    659
    Ha!

    DG
    3 notes and the truth.

    1966 Besson 181 highly modified New Standard, early model Wick 4AL
    1918 Hawkes & Son euph 3&1 original
    1917 Conn C/D/Eb mellophone original
    1915 York Bb tenorhorn original, Bach 5GS

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •