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Thread: Sterling vs Willson

  1. Sterling vs Willson

    Hello,

    I'm pretty new to the forums, but I've been playing euphonium for about 35 years...
    I'm looking for a new (to me) horn and weighing my options. I currently have a non-compensating Besson 765 that I like, but I'm really tired of fighting with some of the intonation issues.
    I played a Willson 2900 in college and had a King 2280 in high school. I liked the Willson, but I also usually prefer the "British" euphonium sound. Currently, most of my playing is in a Concert/Symphonic band setting...
    I know the best way to select a new instrument is to play a lot of different ones, but that is pretty difficult to do. Especially because my budget has me looking for a used instead of a new horn.
    All that being said, I have been spending a lot of time reading the forums and researching different brands. I'm still very skeptical about buying from eBay without playing the horn, but that seems to be kind of where I'm at currently.
    So... Does anybody have any thoughts on comparing the following horns?

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/361871970417...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/152413174977...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/252744788606...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

    I think that the Sterling probably has more of the sound I'm looking for, but I've never played one. Also, do the dents in the valve tubing of the Sterling look like they could be removed?
    Additionally, I've considered the Wessex Dolce, but it still seems like the Besson/Willson/Sterling/Adams are better horns.
    Since I can't easily play any of these, I'm looking for any and all opinions you can give. Also, other than a new Adams, is there anything else I should be considering? Anybody have an Adams they want to sell??? LOL.

    Thanks!
    Doug

  2. Doug,

    Here is a quick summary:

    1. QuinntheEskimo is good to deal with. I have bought a horn from him. The Sterling is a later 2000's vintage (my Sterling is similar and is 2009). It has all of the good stuff EXCEPT it is missing parts to the tuning trigger assembly. There is an adjustable turnbuckle rod that has been replaced with a cheap, non adjustable pushrod with plastic ball joints. The replacement for this can only be sourced from Sterling. It is also missing the stop screw on the slide itself which is essential for setting the actual tuning. As currently shown, this horn ONLY can have the tuning slide in the fully retracted position. You can push the trigger to extend the slide, but it will always return to the fully retracted position. This can be fixed using something like a 3rd valve screw stop from a Bach trumpet. A good repair facility can deal with this. The minor dent in the 1st-2nd valve compensating loop does not concern me at all. Very minor.

    2. The 1st Willson looks very nice, but there are really only two pictures of the actual horn. Can't tell if there are any faults or blemishes.

    3. The 2nd Willson looks well used and the price is pretty high. That sale has ended, but it may be relisted.

    Doug
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  3. #3
    Among the brands you mentioned, based on my experience, the Sterling Virtuoso or Adams will come closest to the British sound. English-made Bessons will too, of course.

    The first horn linked (Sterling Virtuoso) has been discussed on the forum. There are some small issues, like the missing knob on the first compensating slide, but the trigger is of more concern. It needs to be reworked, because as it is now there is no way to set your non-triggered tuning (it will always go all the way in when released).

    The 2nd link (Willson 2900) looks very solid and safe. But of course I have never been able to get the British sound I like from a 2900.

    The horn on the 3rd link is similar to the second.

    I suspect a used Adams will cost you more than these, so that may not be an option (they are all pretty new yet).

    A better Virtuoso may show up if you can be patient. But it may be price higher than this one.

    A used British Sovereign 967 could work well if you add a tuning trigger (so allow for the price of the added trigger in your budget). Or it can also play very well in tune if you don't mind using alternate fingerings on the 6th partial, which is what I used to do. If you're OK with that, a British 967 would probably be your cheapest answer. You'd still want to wait for a good one to show up. The added risk with the British Sovereigns is that they varied from horn to horn - some are better than others.
    Last edited by davewerden; 02-03-2017 at 06:49 AM.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Smoketown, Pa
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    233
    I agree with Doug about the Sterling. My own repairman says he could fix the problems.
    B&S 3046 Baritone/Euphonium
    Wessex Festivo
    B&S PT37-S
    Schilke ST20 Tenor Trombone
    Jupiter XO Double valve bass trombone

  5. #5
    I've got both a Sterling and a Besson (New Standard... had a Sovereign). The Besson is MUCH rounder when I play it, compared to the Sterling. The Sterling sound is fine, but I always find myself gravitating back to the Besson. I hope you get a chance to play both before deciding which route you'd like to take.
    Sterling Virtuoso Euphonium, Denis Wick 4AL

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pat View Post
    I've got both a Sterling and a Besson (New Standard... had a Sovereign). The Besson is MUCH rounder when I play it, compared to the Sterling. The Sterling sound is fine, but I always find myself gravitating back to the Besson. I hope you get a chance to play both before deciding which route you'd like to take.
    That's where the choice becomes personal, but I think it's safe to say that both the Besson Imperial/New Standard and the Virtuoso have a "British sound." Would you agree?

    I think there is still something special about the sound of the NS. I wanted a bigger, darker tone, so that's why I went to Sovereign/Sterling/Adams, but when I play one of the older NS horns it still speaks to me.
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
    Posts
    1,034
    Having some mouthpiece time on many different euph's, I can identify with the Brit horns do sound different overall than the Willsons.

    Personally, I really prefer the 'English' sound.

    Another thing I noticed about the 2950 I had for a year was the valve block was slightly wider than my Besson. This required me to spread my fingers further apart to span them.

    Dennis

  8. Now you may all say that I'm crazy, and/or that I don't really know what the "british sound" is, but...
    I just saw/heard Demondrea Thurman play for the first time at the Army TEW over the weekend. (Long story short, I've been out of the loop for a LOOOOONG time. The last thing like this I attended was ITEC in 1992.)
    As soon as I heard him play I thought "Wow! That is exactly the sound I'm looking for!" I had to look it up to find out, but obviously I found that he plays the Miraphone 5050 which is a horn I hadn't even really considered because I had no previous experience with Miraphone Euphs. Now, it is definitely on my short list of horns I'm looking for.
    So, I guess my question is, how much of that "sound" is him and how much is the horn? I am a decent player, but I'm never going to play like him...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Hidden Valley, AZ
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    The 5050 is the best offering from Mirafone, and a great horn in it's own right.

    Dennis

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    West Palm Beach, FL
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    3,853
    As the old saying goes, 'The pros can sound good on a mpc, hose and funnel'. That's pretty close to accurate. Although I know I'll never sound as good as Demondrae, I do really like the M5050 and have played it now for just over two years. Intonation is really good but not perfect. I don't have a trigger on mine and don't really miss it. I DO use 2nd valve for the concert 'G' top line of BC staff. The 6th partial 'Eb and 'F' above the staff I have to lip down some. The 6th partial 'E' is in tune without lipping. The tone as you might expect is glorious. It's a big horn with main bore of .610. Surprising to me though is that the bore of the 4th valve circuit is .638 if memory serves. A bit smaller than other compensating horns.
    Last edited by RickF; 02-06-2017 at 02:59 PM.
    Rick Floyd
    Miraphone 5050 - Warburton BJ / RF mpc
    YEP-641S (recently sold)
    Doug Elliott - 102 rim; I-cup; I-9 shank


    "Always play with a good tone, never louder than lovely, never softer than supported." - author unknown.
    Symphonic Band of the Palm Beaches
    El Cumbanchero (Raphael Hernandez, arr. Naohiro Iwai)
    Chorale and Shaker Dance
    (John Zdechlik)

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