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Thread: Denis Wick Heritage 4AL, 4ABL, 4BL

  1. #1

    Denis Wick Heritage 4AL, 4ABL, 4BL

    Hello everyone,

    While I have the chance to, I have been doing some experimenting trying to find what might be a better suited mouthpiece for me. Over the course of the year, I have changed instrument brands as well as mouthpieces, trying to find the right combination between me, the instrument and the mouthpiece itself.

    I originally started out mainly on a Besson Sovereign 967 with a Denis Wick SM4U in gold plate, which I have used for about a year now. What I like about this was that the Ultra had the capacity to push the 967 and really make it sing. I also really liked the articulation and the sound from the SM4U. However late this year, I have switched to a Yamaha Maestro which for me I think is a better suit, and I am now trying out a Bach 4G, as I didn't find the SM4U combined as well with the Yamaha as it did with the Besson. I love the rim of the Bach much more then the Ultra, and it has a narrower throat, so there is no 'Wick fuzz'. However I just feel like I have to do more work on this mouthpiece to get it to open up and really project. Plus the mouthpiece feels a little too 'heavy' and that I have to work harder to make it do stuff it probably doesn't want to do. I know that is a weird statement coming from an Ultra, but I just feel like the Ultra had more life in the sound when I played it.

    So I have in a way come full circle - to the Heritage line. Now I have had a little bit of experience with the Heritage mouthpieces already. I used a 6BS Heritage on baritone before, in which it is a very nice mouthpiece. What I loved about the Heritage (on baritone anyway), was the vibrancy in the tone which gave the instrument a bit of life instead of feeling 'dead'. I could still get a dark 'British-style' baritone sound from the Heritage, but it didn't sound dead like if you were using a Megatone. The articulation and response were on point, and it had a great deal of flexibility. The rim was slightly sharp, but I didn't feel it to be as sharp as the Classics (in which I have never been a big fan of their rims).

    I did originally try out a 4AL Heritage when I first moved to euphonium last year, and I (probably to my stupidity at the time) quickly discounted them after a minute because I found them to have too much of a trombone like tone to them. However I am very much interested in trying them out again just to see if anything has changed (in my playing anyway to agree with them).

    So I was wanting to hear people's opinions on the 4AL, the 4ABL and the 4BL in the Heritage line. I am particularly interested in the 4ABL because it has the depth of cup that the 4AL has (which is great coming from an SM4U), but the throat and backbone of a 4BL (which again I like because this is in between the Bach 4G - which is a bit too small because I have to work harder to open the horn up, and a SM4U - which is slightly too big because the Wick fuzz has it slight affect on certain notes). So in theory, this is maybe what I have been searching for.

    Just a side note, I am not looking at the Classic mouthpieces as I am not a big fan of the standard Classic rims. If anyone has any information to share, that would be very appreciated. I am planning on giving these a try before I get into the busy season, where I won't have relay yet any time to play around with different mouthpieces.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Cameron J.; 12-18-2016 at 08:27 AM.

  2. I too would be interested in any opinions on the Heritage line. I am considering moving on from my Schilke 51D, and am curious how well the Heritage line works on euphonium.

  3. #3
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Thank you. That was actually one of the first articles I checked out before I started this thread. I was hoping more people could provide some feedback. I am planning on giving a Heritage 4AL a try within the next couple of weeks, but in the meantime, I was just hoping to get some information.

    Since you bring it up Mr. Werden, could you perhaps elaborate more on the Heritage? Mainly, why you still stuck with the Classic. I am aware the Heritage does have a brighter sound (even though vibrant is probably a much better word to use), but is it enough to turn people away from it? I really like having a dark, full and rich euphonium tone, but I don't want it to be to the point of it being almost a 'dead' sound, where there is no life in it. The experience of playing the 6BS Heritage on the baritone was that I could get a vibrant tone on the baritone, with it still being a dark and rich tone. Also the Yamaha Maestro I am using is much more darker and warmer in tone then the Besson Sovereign I was using with my SM4U Ultra (one reason why the Ultra wasn't the best it, it gave off almost too dark of a sound).

    Also would you choose the 4AL or the 4ABL as the better out of the two for euphonium use?

  5. #5
    Mouthpieces are a very personal choice. It's hard to review them objectively, but I gave it a shot.

    I doubt most players have tried the Heritage, which may be why you don't see many in use. Because Steve Mead uses an "SM" mouthpiece, that takes a lot of the wind from the sails of Heritage discussions. And I don't know of any major artist endorsing Heritage. But I think it is a good mouthpiece, and a serious shopper should try it. The rim is considerably different from the SM or classic Wick, and it might suit some people better.

    For me, the classic 4AL always brings me back to itself because of the open, singing sound. That, of course, contributes to its main fault, which is the little bit of extra fuzz compared to some others.

    The 4ABL darkens the sound (in my terminology; some would disagree) and gives a different feel. If you come from a 51D or BB1 and like that feel, then the ABL might be better for you. My PERSONAL choice is still the classic 4AL, but I'm looking when I see new mouthpieces; I may find the perfect match yet!
    Dave Werden (ASCAP)
    Euphonium Soloist, U.S. Coast Guard Band, retired
    Adams Artist (Adams E3)
    Alliance Mouthpiece (DC3)
    YouTube: dwerden
    Facebook: davewerden
    Twitter: davewerden
    Instagram: davewerdeneuphonium

  6. Quote Originally Posted by davewerden View Post
    Mouthpieces are a very personal choice. It's hard to review them objectively, but I gave it a shot.

    I doubt most players have tried the Heritage, which may be why you don't see many in use. Because Steve Mead uses an "SM" mouthpiece, that takes a lot of the wind from the sails of Heritage discussions. And I don't know of any major artist endorsing Heritage. But I think it is a good mouthpiece, and a serious shopper should try it. The rim is considerably different from the SM or classic Wick, and it might suit some people better.

    For me, the classic 4AL always brings me back to itself because of the open, singing sound. That, of course, contributes to its main fault, which is the little bit of extra fuzz compared to some others.

    The 4ABL darkens the sound (in my terminology; some would disagree) and gives a different feel. If you come from a 51D or BB1 and like that feel, then the ABL might be better for you. My PERSONAL choice is still the classic 4AL, but I'm looking when I see new mouthpieces; I may find the perfect match yet!
    Sorry to resurrect an older thread, but I have some questions. Last November, I went from playing a Yamaha 321S to playing a Wessex Dolce. Played the Yamaha using a Wick 4AY and got a Wick 4AL when I went to test play the Dolce; and have since been using the 4AL.

    I've noticed that the Wessex/4AL is less 'airy' than the Yamaha/4AY, but the Wessex/4AL sound seems to me to be a bit 'bright'. Would a switch to the Wick Heritage 4ABL help 'darken' the sound? Are there places in the midwest that would possible stock euphonium mouthpieces that can be played before purchasing?

    Thanks to all for any and all advice! Really enjoy reading through this forum.

  7. I personally don't think the Heritage would darken the sound much, though it may "deaden" it some with the different mass distribution. You are more likely to get a sound difference using a Wick SM4X or Alliance DC3, though cup and lip shapes are quite different from the 4AL/4AL heritage.
    Adams E3 0.60 Sterling bell - Prototype top sprung valves
    Concord Band
    Winchendon Winds
    Townsend Military Band

  8. #8
    Ohhh gosh what an old thread haha. To try and put it in a nutshell, since then, I have moved to a Yamaha Neo eupho, and using an SM4 gold plated mouthpiece. I found the 4AL in the Heritage a bit too 'trombony' for my personal taste, and yes, found the sound a bit 'dead' as well. What I love about the SM4 compared to the SM4U Ultra was that it still has the large Denis Wick style throat to give plenty of power and sound (compared to a Bach), but not as deep of a cup so I can control the sound better. Also I prefer the rim on the old SM mouthpieces compared to the Ultras. So I don't think the Heritage would darken the sound naturally. The SM4X is shallower then the 4AL, so I actually think you would get a brighter sound (I did because I have the SM4, the SM4U and the SM4X). Also take into account that you are getting used to a new euphonium (you have moved from a non-compensating medium bore eupho to a large bore compensating eupho), so it will take some time to adjust and your tone to fill out. I think the 4ABL would add more 'core' to the sound, at the expense of how big of a sound you can produce. That is what I found when I was using a Bach 4G for a bit. However this is only my opinion and everyone is different.

    Mouthpiece Express do trial periods, so might be worth checking them out to see if they have one in stock. I am pretty sure they have a 14-day return period. Others here might be able to chime in and provide better information.

  9. Thanks to daruby and Cameron J.! Cameron, I like your term 'trombony' because it describes the sound I am getting with my 4AL (non-Heritage). From daruby's and your comments, it appears that it comes down to either the SM4 or the SM4X. Just to confirm, you got a 'darker' sound using the SM4, compared to the SM4X?

    Thanks, again!
    Meinl-Weston 451S
    Yamaha 321S with 5th valve (1983)
    Buescher U.S.QMC Double-Bell (1939)

  10. #10
    Yes because the SM4X has a shallower cup compared to the SM4.

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