Now Vented Valves on the Wessex Dolce Euphonium!

[ghmerrill]

I think this is a matter of quality rather than simply monel vs. stainless. The composition of the alloy (e.g., the percentage of each metal in it) in either case can make a significant difference in the properties of the result. These include such features as corrosion resistance, resistance to wear, ease of machining, and (in the case of stainless steel) galling. I suspect that galling is responsible for the "sticking" in the case of stainless pistons -- possibly enhanced in cases where insufficient lubrication is used, perhaps because people feel it's not so important with stainless (a mistake). Also, the specific alloy of stainless will affect this property. But I don't know if this has been investigated in the area of pistons for brass instruments.

This also makes me wonder whether different types of oil (synthetic? petroleum? additives?) are more effective with the different alloys.

As anyone who has bought inexpensive stainless steel kitchenware in the past ten years or so knows, some pretty weird stainless alloys have been showing up from China lately.

[Jonathantuba]

At the factory they now have a wonderful gadget (looks similar to bar code scanner) which can scan the metal and give a readout of the exact components contained. They use this to confirm the quality of the metal being used. It was through scanning the euphonium valves that we confirmed they are Monel.

[Isaiah]

We have a few silver-plated Dolce with these upgrades in UK store now. The first vented valve Dolce will be arriving in US store February.

So if I just ordered a lacquer version of the Dolce a few days ago and it is coming from the UK store, it won't have these upgrades?

[Jonathantuba]

I can't really say, as we had stock from two batches. You should receive soon to find out.

[ghmerrill]

At the factory they now have a wonderful gadget (looks similar to bar code scanner) which can scan the metal and give a readout of the exact components contained. They use this to confirm the quality of the metal being used. It was through scanning the euphonium valves that we confirmed they are Monel.

Yes, every coin shop has one of these to determine in a non-invasive way what material/alloy a coin is made of. It's very slick and impressive technology.

But when you say "we confirmed they are Monel", do you mean that you do this to every piston prior to accepting delivery of the instrument? This seems an excessive degree of quality control on the part of the buyer unless the manufacturer isn't trusted.

[Jonathantuba]

Of course not. Just checked one sample valve of batch

[ghmerrill]

Of course not. Just checked one sample valve of batch

I'm confused about who's checking what, and for what purpose. Just trying to get a sensible scenario here. Wessex checks one sample valve of the batch in order to ensure that the valves are Monel (as ordered)? Or the manufacturer checks one sample valve of the batch in order to be sure the valves are Monel -- as the manufacturer intended? And "batch" here means ...? Entire batch being delivered to a single customer? Set of valves on a single instrument in a single production run? An entire production run for (potentially) a number of customers? or ...? Sorry to seem picky, but I'm just really curious about this procedure -- in part because the "Just checked one ..." doesn't conform to any standard quality assurance protocol known to me (which use random samples of one sort or another, with the sample size being generally larger than "one").

[ghmerrill]

Very interesting and informative comments from some VERY experienced people concerning the issues involved in nickel plated brass, Monel, stainless, etc.: http://forums.chisham.com/viewtopic....af8002e530e23d.


Consensus appears to be that nickel plated brass with good quality control is the best choice.

[Jonathantuba]

I'm confused about who's checking what, and for what purpose. Just trying to get a sensible scenario here. Wessex checks one sample valve of the batch in order to ensure that the valves are Monel (as ordered)? Or the manufacturer checks one sample valve of the batch in order to be sure the valves are Monel -- as the manufacturer intended? And "batch" here means ...? Entire batch being delivered to a single customer? Set of valves on a single instrument in a single production run? An entire production run for (potentially) a number of customers? or ...? Sorry to seem picky, but I'm just really curious about this procedure -- in part because the "Just checked one ..." doesn't conform to any standard quality assurance protocol known to me (which use random samples of one sort or another, with the sample size being generally larger than "one").

Usually batch of metal is checked for quality as it comes into factory (everything including valves is made in-house). This time we checked just one valve to clarify metal composition - but that is not the rule.

Wessex is checking the finished instruments, and not the metal composition unless we suspect it is not as specified - which we do not. As Wessex is the factory's largest tuba/euphonium customer we have very close relationship. I converse almost daily with the production manager on new developments and any problems that may arise.