Not repairing the 4th tuning slide on Yamaha YEP-321

[ackmondual]

A used yep-321 has been working well overall. After initial repairs (slides, valves, etc.), the shop determined that fixing tghe 4th valve tuning slide wasn't a matter of spending $80 something, but could be at least twice as much as that, if at all. I wanted to get back to practing sooner than later, so it was soldered in place. Repairs may not be possible, and it sounded like repairs may even damage it. Not great to be out of tune, but I'd like to now what other concerns there'd be not being able to pull it. I'm told that the spit could be blown out, even if not as good as pulling the slide out.

I've been using the instrument only for Community band and practicing.

[carbogast]

A used yep-321 has been working well overall. After initial repairs (slides, valves, etc.), the shop determined that fixing tghe 4th valve tuning slide wasn't a matter of spending $80 something, but could be at least twice as much as that, if at all. I wanted to get back to practing sooner than later, so it was soldered in place. Repairs may not be possible, and it sounded like repairs may even damage it. Not great to be out of tune, but I'd like to now what other concerns there'd be not being able to pull it. I'm told that the spit could be blown out, even if not as good as pulling the slide out.

I've been using the instrument only for Community band and practicing.

So, what was the original problem? The repair seems unusual, but, we don't know what the problem was. Who did the work?

-Carroll

[ghmerrill]

This is not a situation I think I could tolerate, but if you're concerned about water collection in it, installing an Amado water key on it is a piece of cake. I put three of these on my old 1924 tuba. You can get the Amado keys themselves from Votaw tool (either brass or silver plated. Then (if you want to do it yourself) it's just drill the hole, sand finish away at the joint, and solder it on. Or have a repair tech do it.

The only think you need to beware of with Amado keys is to keep them lubricated about at about the same frequency you lubricate your valves. You can also disassemble them for cleaning, but that is almost never necessary if you lube them frequently.

I confess that I, too, am puzzled by the problem of fixing the slide correctly and soldering it in place -- unless you just didn't want to wait a week or so for a part that was needed.

[ackmondual]

The 4th slide couldn't be fixed when work was done on the instrument*, so he called about it. At that point, it could be soldered in, or he could order the part and see if he could do the repairs. I went with the former because at the time, I was eager to get back to practicing again. Can't recall exact details, but there was some inside portion of the slide (again, the 4th tuning slide) that was corroded, which was breaking the usual fit and rendering it un-slide-able.

Another thought was I could just wait until I'm in between semesters... then I wouldn't have to deal with not having an instrument.
Another concern is if I can give the instrument a bath without being able to open the 4th tuning slide, but I guess I should leave that for another thread.



* Getting valves to work, valve cases to open (from both top and bottom), and tuning slides to move

[MarChant]

But why solder it in if it's stuck in the first place?

[ghmerrill]

But why solder it in if it's stuck in the first place?

This is a good question. But I can imagine situations in which (given the wishes of the owner) it might not be completely unreasonable. For example, if the slide was leaking (because of a corrosion problem?) or (worse) was stuck AND leaking, then the best way to seal the leak short of replacing parts (which weren't immediately) available would be to solder it at the inner/outer sleeve joint. To non-techs, solder often seems like a really significant (almost "unreversible" solution), but in fact, it's usually a lot better approach than other alternatives since it's easy to remove and doesn't require constant attention (such as trying to keep a void filled or leak plugged with slide grease or tape). Once the slide is soldered, the player doesn't need to worry about it and he's no worse off than if you tried some other way to plug the leak. Just my speculation.

In terms of not having a tuneable forth valve section, I doubt that I could live with this for very long. It appears that I may be playing a lot more euphonium in the near future (moving from tuba to euph in one band), and so I've been practicing heavily with the euph lately for the first time in a couple of years. I use the fourth valve a LOT (at least for several notes), and just wouldn't be able to do that without being able to tune it correctly. If you can't tune the fourth valve, you may as well just view what you have as a 3-valve horn.

[ackmondual]

UPDATE Nov. 4th 2017:
Loose valve guide got me to consider seeing our usual repair person in town. However, my band director could NOT recommend this person (this is the same person in this thread who loosened all the caps and fixed all the slides, minus the 4th valve tuning slide. He's OK for some things, but for certain types of repair, not quite so), but suggested a good person out of town. I was able to drop it off over the weekend, and pick it up in the middle of the week (3-hour round trip). He did manage to fix this, and then some....
-acid bath (there was green stuff in the slides )
-Made the end of my 12cc mouthpiece circular again (it was "bent" on one part)
-pounded out some dents in the instrument
-replaced the 4th valve guide
-made tighter the 3rd tuning valve slide (there was a slight chance it would fall out while playing if it was pulled out)
-replaced the cork on the water/spit valve of the main tuning slide (cork got separated from the valve/key)

-repaired the 4th valve tuning slide
He was able to use solder to that area to remove and replace the damaged 4th tuning slide, this done by removing and replacing the 2 tubes that the slide goes into. And thanks to Yamaha YEP-321 replacement parts being common, the slide itself was quick to come in at $130


Not too shabby for $200 (he only charged $190, but may as well made it an even $200, consider it a tip!), 3 hours of driving, and around $20 of gas!

[carbogast]

Sounds like you did well by taking it to a good repairman. Sounds better I'll bet!

[ackmondual]

Sounds like you did well by taking it to a good repairman. Sounds better I'll bet!

Nothing "scientific".. but during the following rehearsal, it did sound better. Don't know if it was all in my head (having the boost and confidence of an instrument as if it were "brand new"), or it really did do the trick. I'm inclined to believe the latter, as I also had to factor in not practicing at all between rehearsals (since the repair gentleman had it early on, and wasn't done with it until the day before rehearsal)!